Osama Dead

[Mike Sheehy]

Again, give me an example.

Netanyahu: It's 1938 and Iran is Germany; Ahmadinejad is preparing another Holocaust

holy christ....what..? are you claiming that that this is an attempt to gain sympathy ? This is real. Ahmadinejahd has made no secret of his opinion that Isreal has no right to exist. He is a unrecontructed holocaust denier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6069456.stm

Again, I am shocked to see the mask slip...is this really who you align yourself with ?

[mylestheslasher]

Right. Let's just nip this in the bud.

Myles, that response will not be tolerated on here, not matter what the provocation. Threatening that someone will 'get what's coming to the them' is a serious thing, and not taken lightly. On the basis that you were extremely provoked, I'll give you a pass, but this is the last I want to see of that sort of post.


Mike, to be honest your initial post was outrageous. To claim that anyone would be happy about 9/11 is pretty disgusting. I realise you like being a clever wind up merchant, but to be honest you are becoming more trouble than your contributions are worth at this stage. You've gone completely OTT in your dealings with certain posters, and you are on thin ice at this stage.

Now, calm down everyone.

[Mike Sheehy]

Do you think jews manipulate world sympathy over the holocaust Deiseach ?

Do I think Jews - as in all Jews, collectively - do it? No. Do I think the state of Israel does it? Yes.

Again, give me an example.

I'm truly shocked that you have said this. I think we are making progress though. At least we can get to the root of what gaaboard really thinks and we can stop this phoney pretence.(mods...show some backbone and let this continue)

Sheehy.....just a suggestion.....why not start a seperate thread on your interpretation of the anti semitic posts/posters on the board......and evidence please.

Many thanks.

I am not sure he knows where Israel is.

well, I'm sure you do ..given that big Hamas bullseye you have on it

[Mike Sheehy]

Right. Let's just nip this in the bud.

Myles, that response will not be tolerated on here, not matter what the provocation. Threatening that someone will 'get what's coming to the them' is a serious thing, and not taken lightly. On the basis that you were extremely provoked, I'll give you a pass, but this is the last I want to see of that sort of post.


Mike, to be honest your initial post was outrageous. To claim that anyone would be happy about 9/11 is pretty disgusting. I realise you like being a clever wind up merchant, but to be honest you are becoming more trouble than your contributions are worth at this stage. You've gone completely OTT in your dealings with certain posters, and you are on thin ice at this stage.

Now, calm down everyone.

these are serious issues that should not be censored. I think that most people on here would want an honest discussion about this.

[deiseach]

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Found this in my search. In it, Binyamin Netanyahu says (all of five days ago) that some "deny the Holocaust, like Iran and its satellite (Lebanon's) Hezbollah and (Palestinian) Hamas, which openly call for the destruction of the state of the Jews". So it's okay for the Prime Minister of Israel refer to a Jewish state, but if I were to do that I'd be anti-Semitic! Which brings us back to . . .

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

It's just as well Orwell is no longer with us, because the irony of it all would be the death of him

[Groucho]

Do you think jews manipulate world sympathy over the holocaust Deiseach ?

Do I think Jews - as in all Jews, collectively - do it? No. Do I think the state of Israel does it? Yes.

Again, give me an example.

I'm truly shocked that you have said this. I think we are making progress though. At least we can get to the root of what gaaboard really thinks and we can stop this phoney pretence.(mods...show some backbone and let this continue)

Sheehy.....just a suggestion.....why not start a seperate thread on your interpretation of the anti semitic posts/posters on the board......and evidence please.

Many thanks.

I am not sure he knows where Israel is.

well, I'm sure you do ..given that big Hamas bullseye you have on it

Come on Sheehy.....you can do better than that!

[deiseach]

Again, give me an example.

Netanyahu: It's 1938 and Iran is Germany; Ahmadinejad is preparing another Holocaust

holy christ....what..? are you claiming that that this is an attempt to gain sympathy ? This is real. Ahmadinejahd has made no secret of his opinion that Isreal has no right to exist. He is a unrecontructed holocaust denier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6069456.stm

Again, I am shocked to see the mask slip...is this really who you align yourself with ?

Of course it's an effort to gain 'sympathy'. The notion that Iran is in a position to kill six million Jews is preposterous. It is a straw man, and invoking it is mendacious - as is the notion that I am aligning myself with Ahmadinejad.

[Mike Sheehy]

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Found this in my search. In it, Binyamin Netanyahu says (all of five days ago) that some "deny the Holocaust, like Iran and its satellite (Lebanon's) Hezbollah and (Palestinian) Hamas, which openly call for the destruction of the state of the Jews". So it's okay for the Prime Minister of Israel refer to a Jewish state, but if I were to do that I'd be anti-Semitic! Which brings us back to . . .

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

It's just as well Orwell is no longer with us, because the irony of it all would be the death of him

Deiseach, anti-semitism exists. It is rampant and you know it, just as surely as there are bananas thrown at soccer players in Spanish stadiums ( and all over Europe)

stop demonizing one side over the other.

[Mike Sheehy]

Again, give me an example.

Netanyahu: It's 1938 and Iran is Germany; Ahmadinejad is preparing another Holocaust

holy christ....what..? are you claiming that that this is an attempt to gain sympathy ? This is real. Ahmadinejahd has made no secret of his opinion that Isreal has no right to exist. He is a unrecontructed holocaust denier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6069456.stm

Again, I am shocked to see the mask slip...is this really who you align yourself with ?

Of course it's an effort to gain 'sympathy'. The notion that Iran is in a position to kill six million Jews is preposterous. It is a straw man, and invoking it is mendacious - as is the notion that I am aligning myself with Ahmadinejad.

Of course Iran is "in a position" to do it. why do you think they are not ? and that doesn't even take into account the nuclear aspect. Even easier to wipe out 6 million if you have a few of those.

[Mike Sheehy]

Do you think jews manipulate world sympathy over the holocaust Deiseach ?

Do I think Jews - as in all Jews, collectively - do it? No. Do I think the state of Israel does it? Yes.

Again, give me an example.

I'm truly shocked that you have said this. I think we are making progress though. At least we can get to the root of what gaaboard really thinks and we can stop this phoney pretence.(mods...show some backbone and let this continue)

Sheehy.....just a suggestion.....why not start a seperate thread on your interpretation of the anti semitic posts/posters on the board......and evidence please.

Many thanks.

I am not sure he knows where Israel is.

well, I'm sure you do ..given that big Hamas bullseye you have on it

Come on Sheehy.....you can do better than that!

thought that that was pretty good actually...much better than your pathetic efforts. No wonder chico and harpo wanted to fire your sorry arse !

[Groucho]

Hamas and Democracy


by Charley Reese
I laughed when Hamas swept the Palestinian elections. After all, President Bush and his gang of neoconservative ideologues have been preaching that democracy in the Middle East will lead to peace.

Oops. Now the president will once more have to expose himself as the hypocrite he is. Democracy is good, in Mr. Bush's view, only if it elects the people he wants in office. The choice of the Palestinian majority, expressed in what all the observers said was a free and fair election, is not acceptable to Mr. Bush.

Hamas, you should know, has been around for a long time, and for most of that time, the United States did not label it a terrorist organization. Hamas has a military wing, but the majority of its efforts have been in providing welfare, medical care, and education to dirt-poor Palestinians who would have to do without but for Hamas. Unlike the corrupt Fatah, the Palestinian party Mr. Bush apparently wanted to win, Hamas has a reputation for being honest.

If there is anything American politicians fear, it is an honest man. More than one is even worse. How can the Bush administration bribe the Palestinian Authority into keeping quiet while Israel unilaterally consolidates its position if the elected people won't accept bribes for selling out their constituents? No wonder the Bush White House is worried.

If I were the leader of Hamas, I would send President Bush a message that said essentially this: "Don't worry about not talking to us. We have no desire to talk to you. For 39 years you Americans have talked about peace processes and have not recovered one square centimeter of Palestinian land. On the contrary, Israel has expanded into Palestinian territory while you prevented the United Nations from taking any action to stop it.

"The conflict in Palestine is quite simple. In 1967, Israel invaded and has since occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem. We lack the military power to eject the Israelis and therefore have zero influence on them. You, who have given Israel more than $90 billion, do have influence. So, instead of talking to us, talk to the Israelis. As soon as the Israeli occupation is ended, the problem in Palestine will go away. In the meantime, we have a lot of domestic problems to solve, which was the platform we ran on anyway."

As for the suicide bombings Hamas has carried out, I have said before that the method of delivery is irrelevant. We and the Israelis deliver our bombs from airplanes, helicopters, and artillery tubes. Since the Palestinians are denied modern weapons, they have to walk or drive their bombs to the targets. Morally, there is no difference whatsoever between bombs delivered by air or by foot. It is an undeniable fact that we have killed a thousand times more civilians in Iraq, Panama, Libya, Serbia, Grenada, and Vietnam than Hamas has killed Israelis. Naturally, we dismiss the civilians we kill as "collateral damage."

The death toll in the latest intifada, by the way, is 1,084 Israelis killed by Palestinians and 3,786 Palestinians killed by Israelis. Not all of those Israelis were killed by Hamas. Fatah also has a military wing, and there are other resistance organizations.

But back to the president's strategic blunder. He should have read my column. I've said over and over that the largest group of people in the Middle East pushing for democracy is the Islamic parties, and the only "friends" we have in the Middle East are the rulers we pay to be our friends. You will notice that Egypt, Jordan, and the Saudis, all on our payroll in one way or another, were the first to call on Hamas to moderate its stand.

I doubt Hamas will do so. That's the trouble with honest people of sincere faith. They believe they must answer to a higher authority, and their loyalty is not for sale. Palestinians, like everyone else on Earth, have an inalienable right to resist occupation of their homeland. It is to our shame and disgrace that we side with the occupiers. At any rate, Mr. Bush and the neocons had better be more careful about what they wish for.

[seafoid]

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Found this in my search. In it, Binyamin Netanyahu says (all of five days ago) that some "deny the Holocaust, like Iran and its satellite (Lebanon's) Hezbollah and (Palestinian) Hamas, which openly call for the destruction of the state of the Jews". So it's okay for the Prime Minister of Israel refer to a Jewish state, but if I were to do that I'd be anti-Semitic! Which brings us back to . . .

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

It's just as well Orwell is no longer with us, because the irony of it all would be the death of him

Deiseach, anti-semitism exists. It is rampant and you know it, just as surely as there are bananas thrown at soccer players in Spanish stadiums ( and all over Europe)

stop demonizing one side over the other.

That post by Deiseach followed by the response from the wind up merchant was like Ruud Gullit with those exquisite passes that were beyond the comprehension of the players was passing to.

[Mike Sheehy]

Hamas and Democracy


by Charley Reese
I laughed when Hamas swept the Palestinian elections. After all, President Bush and his gang of neoconservative ideologues have been preaching that democracy in the Middle East will lead to peace.

Oops. Now the president will once more have to expose himself as the hypocrite he is. Democracy is good, in Mr. Bush's view, only if it elects the people he wants in office. The choice of the Palestinian majority, expressed in what all the observers said was a free and fair election, is not acceptable to Mr. Bush.

Hamas, you should know, has been around for a long time, and for most of that time, the United States did not label it a terrorist organization. Hamas has a military wing, but the majority of its efforts have been in providing welfare, medical care, and education to dirt-poor Palestinians who would have to do without but for Hamas. Unlike the corrupt Fatah, the Palestinian party Mr. Bush apparently wanted to win, Hamas has a reputation for being honest.

If there is anything American politicians fear, it is an honest man. More than one is even worse. How can the Bush administration bribe the Palestinian Authority into keeping quiet while Israel unilaterally consolidates its position if the elected people won't accept bribes for selling out their constituents? No wonder the Bush White House is worried.

If I were the leader of Hamas, I would send President Bush a message that said essentially this: "Don't worry about not talking to us. We have no desire to talk to you. For 39 years you Americans have talked about peace processes and have not recovered one square centimeter of Palestinian land. On the contrary, Israel has expanded into Palestinian territory while you prevented the United Nations from taking any action to stop it.

"The conflict in Palestine is quite simple. In 1967, Israel invaded and has since occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem. We lack the military power to eject the Israelis and therefore have zero influence on them. You, who have given Israel more than $90 billion, do have influence. So, instead of talking to us, talk to the Israelis. As soon as the Israeli occupation is ended, the problem in Palestine will go away. In the meantime, we have a lot of domestic problems to solve, which was the platform we ran on anyway."

As for the suicide bombings Hamas has carried out, I have said before that the method of delivery is irrelevant. We and the Israelis deliver our bombs from airplanes, helicopters, and artillery tubes. Since the Palestinians are denied modern weapons, they have to walk or drive their bombs to the targets. Morally, there is no difference whatsoever between bombs delivered by air or by foot. It is an undeniable fact that we have killed a thousand times more civilians in Iraq, Panama, Libya, Serbia, Grenada, and Vietnam than Hamas has killed Israelis. Naturally, we dismiss the civilians we kill as "collateral damage."

The death toll in the latest intifada, by the way, is 1,084 Israelis killed by Palestinians and 3,786 Palestinians killed by Israelis. Not all of those Israelis were killed by Hamas. Fatah also has a military wing, and there are other resistance organizations.

But back to the president's strategic blunder. He should have read my column. I've said over and over that the largest group of people in the Middle East pushing for democracy is the Islamic parties, and the only "friends" we have in the Middle East are the rulers we pay to be our friends. You will notice that Egypt, Jordan, and the Saudis, all on our payroll in one way or another, were the first to call on Hamas to moderate its stand.

I doubt Hamas will do so. That's the trouble with honest people of sincere faith. They believe they must answer to a higher authority, and their loyalty is not for sale. Palestinians, like everyone else on Earth, have an inalienable right to resist occupation of their homeland. It is to our shame and disgrace that we side with the occupiers. At any rate, Mr. Bush and the neocons had better be more careful about what they wish for.

"...to call on Hamas to moderate its stand. That's the trouble with honest people of sincere faith. They believe they must answer to a higher authority, and their loyalty is not for sale. "


so, Groucho is on record as saying that he believes that Hamas are "honest" people that "answer to a higher authority" and thus justify their slaughter of innocents.

Nice one Groucho.Your jokes never get old.

[Mike Sheehy]

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Found this in my search. In it, Binyamin Netanyahu says (all of five days ago) that some "deny the Holocaust, like Iran and its satellite (Lebanon's) Hezbollah and (Palestinian) Hamas, which openly call for the destruction of the state of the Jews". So it's okay for the Prime Minister of Israel refer to a Jewish state, but if I were to do that I'd be anti-Semitic! Which brings us back to . . .

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

It's just as well Orwell is no longer with us, because the irony of it all would be the death of him

Deiseach, anti-semitism exists. It is rampant and you know it, just as surely as there are bananas thrown at soccer players in Spanish stadiums ( and all over Europe)

stop demonizing one side over the other.

That post by Deiseach followed by the response from the wind up merchant was like Ruud Gullit with those exquisite passes that were beyond the comprehension of the players was passing to.

Gullits skills are no match for your probing passes to himmler on the wing ....

[seafoid]

Here is wikleaks on Israel and its treatment of its Palestinian minority

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/07/israel-gaza2

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 05 TEL AVIV 001080
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 05/16/2018
TAGS: PREL, PTER, PINR, KPAL, KWBG, EG, IS
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR'S MEETING WITH SHIN BET CHIEF FOCUSES ON ISRAEL'S ARABS, THE GAZA STRIP, AND OMAR SOLIMAN'S VISIT
Classified By: Ambassador Richard H. Jones. Reasons: 1.4 (b, d).


------- SUMMARY -------


1. (S) In a May 13 meeting covering a range of subjects, Israeli Security Agency (ISA, or Shin Bet) Chief Yuval Diskin told Ambassador Jones the following:


-- Israel's Arabs are materially better off than many Arabs in neighboring countries, but increasingly feel disconnected from the State, and tend to identify themselves first as Arabs, and sometimes Muslims, rather than as Israelis. Diskin and the ISA have been advocates within the GOI for doing more to reconnect Israeli-Arabs with Israel. The many ideas Diskin and others have come up with to do this cost money, which the GOI does not have

. (S) Responding to the Ambassador's question about Diskin's current assessment of the Arab-Israeli population -- especially in light of an incident May 8 during which an Arab-Israeli MK claimed he had been attacked by an undercover police officer -- Diskin initially expressed reluctance and discomfort in answering the question, explaining that how Israel treats its Arab citizens is its own internal affair. Then, opening up, Diskin proceeded to spend the next ten minutes describing his concerns about Israel's Arab-Israeli population. According to the ISA chief, many of them "take their rights too far," and the community itself is suffering from an identity crisis. Most, he claimed, want to live in Israel. At the same time, they see themselves first as Arabs, and then as Muslims. (He acknowledged that a small percentage are Christians.)