Osama Dead

[Tyrones own]

Actually no, I watch it quite a bit for some balance
which by all accounts is more than can be
Said for you and Fox...am I wrong?

[Puckoon]

Wrong? Depends on what you're actually asking or insinuating.  I don't watch much news, or tv for that matter, save for big events, and local news. Daily news I read on BBC. I don't care much for the American opinion styled news delivery. As O'Reilly likes to say- give me the facts.

[magpie seanie]

Watching Fox the last few days has been hilarious. They don't know where to put themselves. TO is the same it seems. Must be tough on them, bless em.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness Seanie, that's also true in some of the Liberal outlets. Obama has suddenly morphed into the heroic Cowboy that George Bush wanted to be (in the movie script). What to do? It's like if Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney swapped teams now, you'd feel dirty for cheering for them

[theskull1]

In fairness Seanie, that's also true in some of the Liberal outlets. Obama has suddenly morphed into the heroic Cowboy that George Bush wanted to be (in the movie script). What to do?

Thats not how I'm hearing it AZ

More balanced commentators (as I would call them) are saying that the OBL "brand" was developed into what was by the US and that his influence (whilst he had some) was nowhere near as controlling on world terrorism as the US and other western powers have marketed it to be. I haven't heard anyone describe him as anything close to heroic. This was being said straight after the WTC bombings as well so theres nothing new being said from what I've heard. He was elevated by the west to be the poster boy for world terrorism which gave the masses the hate figure they needed. This whole notion (from the non liberal commentators  ) that killing him in some way decapitates the head of the snake is laughable is it not? World terrorism unfortunately is here for the long term as is self interested western foreign policy. It's the ugly truth

[johnneycool]

Watching Fox the last few days has been hilarious. They don't know where to put themselves. TO is the same it seems. Must be tough on them, bless em.

I was thinking that, poor TO is confused as he'd like to be happy with Obama for giving the go ahead, but just can't bring himself to praise Obama for anything. It must be tough in a black and white world.

I'd have preferred to see Osama up in the Haig instead, but that certainly wouldn't have appeased even the more liberal minded of Americans after 9-11.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness Seanie, that's also true in some of the Liberal outlets. Obama has suddenly morphed into the heroic Cowboy that George Bush wanted to be (in the movie script). What to do?

Thats not how I'm hearing it AZ

More balanced commentators (as I would call them) are saying that the OBL "brand" was developed into what was by the US and that his influence (whilst he had some) was nowhere near as controlling on world terrorism as the US and other western powers have marketed it to be. I haven't heard anyone describe him as anything close to heroic. This was being said straight after the WTC bombings as well so theres nothing new being said from what I've heard. He was elevated by the west to be the poster boy for world terrorism which gave the masses the hate figure they needed. This whole notion (from the non liberal commentators  ) that killing him in some way decapitates the head of the snake is laughable is it not? World terrorism unfortunately is here for the long term as is self interested western foreign policy. It's the ugly truth

I said Obama, not Osama? As in the Liberals have for years been giving out about the sort of insertions into sovereign nations that Bush had no qualms about. Now, just as the hard right are having a hard time giving Obama credit for doing what Bush would have done, the far left are also having a hard time praising Obama for doing what Bush wanted to do.

As I said, it's like cheering for/against a lad who has suddenly (and briefly) changed teams.

[theskull1]

 

Note to self: Cancel hearing test appt. Book eye test appt

[Bensars]

I was flicking throught the channels the other night and came across Fox news.
It was the Glenn Beck ( i think thats his name ) show. It has to have been the most one sided, total american stars and stripes, usa usa, pile of steaming turd i have ever seen.

However i would recommend it for comedy value. If they are being force fed this sh*te its not a bit wonder the average american has this  outlook on world affairs. 

[seafoid]

This is really, really good . Israeli journalist Gideon Levy is one of the best

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/theatrics-of-bin-laden-s-killing-can-t-replace-real-values-1.359864?trailingPath=2.169%2C2.225%2C2.227%2C


Published 23:34 04.05.11 Latest update 23:34 04.05.11 Theatrics of bin Laden's killing can't replace real values
It is not Guantanamo Bay and Abbottabad that will make America the promised land; but it's serving as an example in Tunis, Benghazi and Cairo.

By Gideon Levy
Well done, Barack Obama. Kudos, Navy SEALs. Assassinating Osama bin Laden, code-named "Geronimo," was a fairly impressive military operation. But that's it. All the rest is sheer nonsense.

The waves of excitement and joy that swept the world, including Israel, are no more than a deceptive ripple of foam that will evaporate immediately. Just like last week's wedding of the century, this week's assassination celebration was no more than a Hollywood-style event blown out of proportion.

But while many people didn't take the wedding festivities seriously, the celebrations of bin Laden's death have created mountains of bombastic pathos signifying nothing. Among the troublesome questions, which almost nobody dares to utter, is why kill bin Laden rather than capture him alive and, primarily, why toss the body into the sea, keeping him from getting the burial that even a dog would.

It is important to note that the world hasn't changed at all since the operation. A safer world? Of course not. A better, more moral world? Very doubtful. Bin Laden deserved to die. He was responsible for the deaths, not only of thousands of Americans and Europeans, but also of hundreds of thousands of Muslims who were killed in the abominable retaliation wars America waged in response to his acts. He gave a bad name to Muslims and spread hatred of them. Killing bin Laden was an act of primeval revenge, nothing more and nothing less.

The empire that struck back remains at least as hated as it was before, and persists in its decline. Only its president's popularity is soaring, but that's just temporary. Israel's 1976 Entebbe raid saved lives, yet changed nothing in history; even the prime minister who gave the order couldn't be reelected after the operation.

But bin Laden's death didn't even save anyone. It only made many vindictive people happy. Just as bin Laden's body was thrown into the sea, the Americans had previously shown Saddam Hussein having his teeth checked as though he were a horse being examined in the marketplace.

Both acts are despicable, repulsive and unnecessary. As it is wont to do, the United States cloaked the details of the operation with the fog of war. Was bin Laden armed? Was there a woman in the compound? Were shots fired? Nobody asks. Why spoil the best party in the world? Israel, of course, joined the orgy with great enthusiasm.

An army of generals and commentators, who wait in the wings for assassinations like these, emerged in television studios, proudly airing their intimate familiarity with the Navy SEALs and singing America's praises. Oh, such intelligence information; oh, such commandos. The subtext is how great it must be to take action without a High Court of Justice, without a Richard Goldstone or a B'Tselem. As if we don't jump into operations like that anyway.

We just haven't had similar success with a rescue of Gilad Shalit. The result is more support for assassinations and torture, and even less of a chance than before of reaching a deal to free Shalit. That is the local damage of the operation in Abbottabad. After the euphoria ebbs, the world will awaken to more acts of vengeance and an even greater hatred of America.

This Rambo V-style operation will not be what brings glory to the United States. The only glory comes with returning to its stated values, which have mostly been voided of content, with acting like it really is the leader of the free world.

It is not Guantanamo Bay and Abbottabad that will make America the promised land. The empire may have struck back multiple times, but it has long betrayed its duty. The Muslim world dreams of America, trying inadvertently to implement its declared spirit − and hates it.

It's no wonder that America's sole achievement in recent years was made without firing a shot or invading a single country. Its only achievement stemmed from its serving as an example in Tunis, Benghazi and Cairo, where people want their countries to be like America − but not the America of the Navy SEALs, of the body tossers.

They want the America of its proclaimed principles − the ones it states loftily, and betrays again and again. Killing Osama bin Laden may have been necessary, but it will neither strengthen this empire nor halt its decline.

Only if the United States reinstates its basic values and disseminates them will it once again be the leader of the free world, not merely the leader of modern imperialism. About two and a half years ago, the United States seemed to have elected for president a person who understands that, but that hope is on its way to being dashed.

[magpie seanie]

In fairness Seanie, that's also true in some of the Liberal outlets. Obama has suddenly morphed into the heroic Cowboy that George Bush wanted to be (in the movie script). What to do?

Thats not how I'm hearing it AZ

More balanced commentators (as I would call them) are saying that the OBL "brand" was developed into what was by the US and that his influence (whilst he had some) was nowhere near as controlling on world terrorism as the US and other western powers have marketed it to be. I haven't heard anyone describe him as anything close to heroic. This was being said straight after the WTC bombings as well so theres nothing new being said from what I've heard. He was elevated by the west to be the poster boy for world terrorism which gave the masses the hate figure they needed. This whole notion (from the non liberal commentators  ) that killing him in some way decapitates the head of the snake is laughable is it not? World terrorism unfortunately is here for the long term as is self interested western foreign policy. It's the ugly truth

I said Obama, not Osama? As in the Liberals have for years been giving out about the sort of insertions into sovereign nations that Bush had no qualms about. Now, just as the hard right are having a hard time giving Obama credit for doing what Bush would have done, the far left are also having a hard time praising Obama for doing what Bush wanted to do.

As I said, it's like cheering for/against a lad who has suddenly (and briefly) changed teams.

Its not the same at all.

Bush (and his puppy dog Blair) went after "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. That was their stated reason for going in. The WMD's were not there. They were wrong, pure and simple. The only possible justifiable reason for going in was to remove Saddam (an evil fcuker but not really a massive threat to the west in the big scheme of things) but that was only an afterthought to try and justify their monumental screw up.

Obama sent in US forces to Pakistan to kill or capture Bin Laden, the person directly responsible for killing thousands of innocent people and openly threatening to repeat this action. This they achieved. It was entirely justifiable.

A world of difference between the two scenarios.

[ziggysego]

I was flicking throught the channels the other night and came across Fox news.
It was the Glenn Beck ( i think thats his name ) show. It has to have been the most one sided, total american stars and stripes, usa usa, pile of steaming turd i have ever seen.

However i would recommend it for comedy value. If they are being force fed this sh*te its not a bit wonder the average american has this  outlook on world affairs.

Charlie Brooker is a big fan of his

[Groucho]

Article from Linda Heard......Arab News
The Osama story full of holes
All secrets are lost forever in the bowels of the North Arabian Sea

AM I sorry the world's Most Wanted man is dead? No, I'm not. But at the same time I object to my intelligence being insulted. I spent all day Monday wincing at the blatant "God bless America" jingoism coming out of US beginning with the jubilant crowds dancing on Osama's grave to President Barack Obama's  "Justice has been served."

Justice would only have been served if Osama Bin Laden had been captured, investigated and tried. Instead, he was shot in the head while unarmed and hiding behind the skirts of his youngest wife. Martyrdom was just how OBL wished to go. The ultimate humiliation would have been to drag him away in an orange jump suit.

TV commentators say putting OBL on trial would have posed problems for the US, which is nonsense. There were no such qualms about putting Saddam Hussein or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed – one of many supposed masterminds behind 9/11 – before a judge. The fact is Bin Laden's assassination was just as purposeful as the poisoning of a Hamas commander in Dubai by the Mossad.

It seems too that he was shot before his attackers could prove his identity. The harvesting of DNA and use of electronic facial recognition took place subsequent to his death. How efficient is facial recognition when the subject has been shot through the head?

In his triumphal speech, Obama conflated OBL with 9/11. However, according to the FBI's Most Wanted website, he was sought solely for his involvement with the bombing of embassies in Africa and the USS Cole. When the FBI was asked by a journalist why there was no mention of 9/11 on OBL's webpage, there was no proof of Bin Laden's involvement in that, they answered.

Wouldn't taking him alive have been the best option? His alleged role in 9/11 could have been substantiated or otherwise and he would have been a font of information on the worldwide Al-Qaeda movement. When hundreds of small fry were incarcerated in Guantanamo, isn't it odd that the biggest fish of all was literally thrown into the sea?   That's another thing. Why was the US in such haste to dispose of the body and why was it cast upon the waves instead of being buried in accordance with Islamic precepts? The official version is that no country wanted OBL's remains and the US as mindful to expedite the funeral in keeping with Islamic law; the problem is burial at sea is only permitted by Islam in cases when a person dies on board ship. If the Americans were so concerned about Islamic law, his body could just as easily have been placed anonymously under the Afghan desert sands.

CLEARLY Islamic tradition wasn't uppermost in their minds. In this case, given their awareness that news of the death wouldn't be taken at face value by millions around the world – especially since the US has announced OBL's death several times before — why didn't they permit foreign forensic teams to view the corpse and take DNA samples so that his demise could be independently verified? That would have been the best way to silence conspiracy theorists.

The rest of the tale is equally bizarre. The story goes that OBL and his family may have lived in the three-story high, million-dollar walled mansion/fortress in the resort town of Abbottabad, a stone's throw from Islamabad, ever since it was constructed in 2005.

The man with a $ 25 million bounty on his head must have been suffering from dementia when he chose to quit his Afghan cave or mud hut in Waziristan for a house that stands out like a sore thumb in a small town housing a military academy. Most residents of upscale Abbottabad are in some way connected to the military; many are retired army officers.

Are we seriously to believe that foreign residents without telephone lines or Internet connection and without need of garbage collection (they incinerated their own) didn't attract any attention from either military intelligence or Pakistan's ubiquitous Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) over the years? In Egypt, where I'm based, no one could move into a home near a military base without state security knowing what brand of toothpaste they use.

Did no tradesman or repairman turn-up at OBL's door? He had a lawn. Did he cut the grass himself? Who supplied the occupants with food; who paid the water and electricity bills? Most importantly, where did this most easily recognizable fugitive on the planet receive dialysis?  Western politicians are saying Pakistan has some explaining to do. Some believe the ISI and the Pakistani military contain OBL sympathizers. Even if there's a kernel of truth in that, most wouldn't be and even those who were so disposed would have been tempted by a $25 million windfall. Pakistan's government is also under fire from within. People are angered by the US' failure to get Pakistan's green light for a Navy Seal op which they see as an infringement of their country's sovereignty.

THERE are also questions surrounding the timing of the operation. When the US had intelligence since August, why did the president wait eight months before giving the go-ahead during which time the family could have relocated?

Cynics are already pointing to a 10- point leap in President Obama's approval rating in the run-up to next year's presidential election while noting that crowds outside the White House have been chanting "Four more years". The announcement also comes at a time when the White House is mulling withdrawing troops from Afghanistan. That would spell failure as long as Bin Laden was still on the loose. Now the president can proudly announce "a job well done" — never mind that it took ten years and tens of thousands of innocent Afghan and Pakistani lives. In truth, the OBL operation has undermined the military aggression on Afghanistan.  I've argued since day one that it was a grave mistake, writing that the only way to get Bin Laden was the use of human intelligence and special ops. I used to receive irate e-mails from Americans in response; now I feel vindicated.

The Afghanistan war chest has cost US taxpayers alone more than $350 billion, over 2,340 coalition military personnel have been killed — and there's been incalculable numbers of civilian casualties. Americans should ask themselves whether so much sacrifice was worth it just to shoot one aging man in the head when his sickening ideology has already spawned worldwide hydra-headed Al-Qaeda offshoots and clones.

With OBL gone, Al-Qaeda has received a body blow and our world is now a safer place, say US and British officials while, at the same time, their countries' embassies have been fortified and their citizens warned of possible revenge attacks. Did the White House never stop to think that Osama the martyr could be of greater inspiration to his fanatical death-loving chorus than Osama the recluse! The real body blow to terrorist extremists has been the Arab Spring. It wasn't sparked by men with explosive waist belts but by youngsters using Internet social media who succeeded where Osama and his murdering ilk failed. Against something so transformational and earth shattering, in the great scheme of things, Bin Laden's end is a nonevent. If the families of 9/11 victims have received closure, so be it.

If, God forbid, I were in their place I would never have been satisfied until I learned the truth straight from the horse's mouth. Unfortunately, the mystery will continue; Bin Laden's treasury of secrets are lost forever in the bowels of the North Arabian Sea.

For the record, I haven't come across a single Egyptian who believes the official story; most think Osama died years ago from natural causes and has been resurrected for political expediency. Oh what fantastical imaginations they have! Of course, they can't possibly be right.

[Arthur_Friend]

"But at the same time I object to my intelligence being insulted."

Couldn't be put any better than that.

[Banana Man]

I see the Apache Indians have written to Obama and demanded an apology for using their former leader 'Geronimo' as the code name for the operation - good luck with that one lads