USFC Qtr Final - Armagh V Down - Athletic Grounds 28th May 7:30pm

[Agent Orange]

Is there any reason why the champions league final cant be moved to Sunday.

[Naomh Pol CLG]

with a bit of luck our german friends schalke will beat united in the semi to save the undoubted worry united fans all have with missing  " the biggest soccer game in the world"
i will be there hoping that armagh put up a good show  , because undoubtedly down are well on their way to winning another sam

[Armaghtothebone]

These rediculously poor attempts at kidology/mindgames/windup or whatever else u want to call them are getting a bit boring at this stage.

Its not kidology or a windup as far as I'm concerned.
This is the first time in a dozen years that we have been going into an Ulster Championship (or even All Ireland) game where I have not seen any way we can win.
We have to all intents and purposes 2 dangerous forwards, men who can make and take a score.
We dont have a high fielding mid-fielder (a-la Jarlath or Paul McGrane)
We absolutely do not have a dirty ball winner (sits back and awaits the word play jokes)
Our defense seems incapable of defending, we are not big enough to deal with physical forwards (Cork/Galway) or quick enough to cope with pacy forwards (step forward Mr. Brogan)
I suspect that we have to accept that our Golden era is very much at an end.
The last 12/13 years were by a country mile the most successful period of sustained success in the history of the County.We had some amazing days, an some days of pure heartbreak too, but we were " a force".On our day we were as good as anybody, some days we were fractionally better than the best, other days we fell agonisingly just short. Those days are gone. This down team is a decent unit, not exceptional in my humble opinion, who stumbled to last year's All Ireland Final (and could have won it), but they are by no means a great Down team. Honestly down fans how many would be shoe-ins for the 91 or 94 teams (3 maybe 4 at a push), yet they could quite conceivably give us a lesson (dont think so-look what Monaghan di to us last Summer).
So, go along on the 28th, cheer them on and hope for a shock but be realistic.   

[Leo]

. This down team is a decent unit, not exceptional in my humble opinion, who stumbled to last year's All Ireland Final (and could have won it), but they are by no means a great Down team. 

That's about as honest an assessment I could expect from anywhere.
Coming from an Armagh man I have some hope that real perspective has entered the equation.
There is not the kick of a ball between these two teams - they will give us a match to be interested  in - no more no less - and Cork will take Sam.

[ogshead]

Agree with those that say its a must see game.  Those that may miss it because of a soccer match, concert or wedding isnt a die hard fan of either down or armagh.  Skip the wedding, even if its ur own...........

Whilst I concur with the above, and I will be there, I cant understand the Ulster councils thinking.  I am also a die-hard Manchester United fan and this would have been a great weekend with the game at Wembly on the Saturday followed by the Championship game on the Sunday....Cant imagine the reasoning for clashing with the biggest Soccer game in the world!

I just had a quick glance at the fixtures for the Ulster Championship and every other game is on a Sunday apart from this one!!

[PAULD123]

Armaghtothebone - very honest an assessment but you haven't accounted for lads playing out of their skins which they might do. If they do that then Armagh still have good enough players to challenge pretty much every team in the country. I think the biggest problem is your management who have shown no indications that they are capable of organising your team to allow them to bring out that big performance. A lot of your issues relate to the way the team has been approaching games not exactly with the players themselves.

As for the current Down team - Coulter would replace Withnail or Farrell, Marty Clarke or Danny would replace Mason with the other on the bench, Gordon would be good enough to play midfield, McVeigh is easily as good as Collins. i thinkteh best combined team would be:

McVeigh
Magill
Deegan
Higgins
Burns/Rooney or McKernan
Breen
Kane
Gordon
McCartan
Carr
Blaney
Hughes
Linden
Coulter
J McCartan

[borderfox]

Is there any reason why the champions league final cant be moved to Sunday.

LOL

[BarryBreensBandage]

Armaghtothebone - very honest an assessment but you haven't accounted for lads playing out of their skins which they might do. If they do that then Armagh still have good enough players to challenge pretty much every team in the country. I think the biggest problem is your management who have shown no indications that they are capable of organising your team to allow them to bring out that big performance. A lot of your issues relate to the way the team has been approaching games not exactly with the players themselves.

As for the current Down team - Coulter would replace Withnail or Farrell, Marty Clarke or Danny would replace Mason with the other on the bench, Gordon would be good enough to play midfield, McVeigh is easily as good as Collins. i thinkteh best combined team would be:

McVeigh
Magill
Deegan
Higgins
Burns/Rooney or McKernan
Breen
Kane
Gordon
McCartan
Carr
Blaney
Hughes
Linden
Coulter
J McCartan

I couldn't see Hughes or Clarke taking Mason's place - for free kicking alone - good post though

[Armaghgael]

Gordon would be good enough to play midfield,

If he was good enough for midfield he would be playing it now

[Leo]

Gordon would be good enough to play midfield,

If he was good enough for midfield he would be playing it now

Now that is a good post - sums it up.

[Armaghtothebone]

Armaghtothebone - very honest an assessment but you haven't accounted for lads playing out of their skins which they might do. If they do that then Armagh still have good enough players to challenge pretty much every team in the country. I think the biggest problem is your management who have shown no indications that they are capable of organising your team to allow them to bring out that big performance. A lot of your issues relate to the way the team has been approaching games not exactly with the players themselves.

As a player I was'nt even good enough to play senior club never mind senior county so I most certainly do not want to appear to be slighting or knocking the current squad. Every one of them tries their damndest when they pull on the orange jersey, gives up more than any of us fans have any right to expect them to, and in many cases do this for years on end without any real prospect of success. But I can not agree with you that we have the players to challenge any team. I wont rehash my previous post, but we are simply not at the very top level of 3 maybe 4/5 teams.
Kerry, the Dubs and the Rebels all beat us at a canter when we as near to full strength as makes no odds.
I I do take your point on Paddy O'Rourke and the seeming lack of a plan but even though as an Armaghman I'd love to be able to blame it all on a Downman, the simple fact is I can't.

[cavanlad]

Agree with those that say its a must see game.  Those that may miss it because of a soccer match, concert or wedding isnt a die hard fan of either down or armagh.  Skip the wedding, even if its ur own...........

Whilst I concur with the above, and I will be there, I cant understand the Ulster councils thinking.  I am also a die-hard Manchester United fan and this would have been a great weekend with the game at Wembly on the Saturday followed by the Championship game on the Sunday....Cant imagine the reasoning for clashing with the biggest Soccer game in the world!

I just had a quick glance at the fixtures for the Ulster Championship and every other game is on a Sunday apart from this one!!

I say it is for TV reasons.

[PAULD123]

Gordon would be good enough to play midfield,

If he was good enough for midfield he would be playing it now

Now that is a good post - sums it up.

It does not sum it up at all. Furthermore it is far from a good post, it is a short-sighted and badly thought out post.

We don't have Conor Deegan available to us to play Fullback. If Deegan was around today then Gordon WOULD be in midfield. Gordon plays fullback because of a lack of an alternative while we have decent alternatives in midfield. Gordon is good enough to play midfield now and would indeed be playing there if it wasn't for the shear necessity of playing him at fullback. Maybe you haven't noticed but he's not exactly on the bench is he?

[Goats Do Shave]

Gordon would be good enough to play midfield,

If he was good enough for midfield he would be playing it now

Now that is a good post - sums it up.

It does not sum it up at all. Furthermore it is far from a good post, it is a short-sighted and badly thought out post.

We don't have Conor Deegan available to us to play Fullback. If Deegan was around today then Gordon WOULD be in midfield. Gordon plays fullback because of a lack of an alternative while we have decent alternatives in midfield. Gordon is good enough to play midfield now and would indeed be playing there if it wasn't for the shear necessity of playing him at fullback. Maybe you haven't noticed but he's not exactly on the bench is he?

I know what you are saying, but I can't imagine Anthony Tohill, Greg McCartan or Paul McGrane being used at full back in their prime.

in Fact Dan played that much at full forward, I think you are accomodating him in your midfield.

Still he's a good player, worth accomdating!

[whitegoodman]

Yes but if u look at Downs midfield in 91 and 94 Eamon Burns went from midfield to wing back, Conor Deegan went from Full Back to midfield and Barry Breen went from midfield to CHB.

Dont think Paul is saying that Dan is as good as McGrane, Tohill or McCartan, just that he would be as good a midfielder as possible Breen or Burns were but has to play at FB at the min as he is doing a good job there and there is no alternative for the position whilst there are viable alternatives at midfield, just like maybe Breen and Burns had to do in 94 as there was a lack of alternatives for the CHB and WHB roles.  Alot of the time u play where the team needs u most, not necessarily ur best position.  On a smaller scale alot of club midfielders never actually get to play there when they play for the county even though that is the position that got them on the county panel in the first place.

For what its worth i would have a fit Amrbose in ahead of Dan at midfield on that team anyway.