Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[norabeag]

Amazing that when Armagh beat Down in Athletic Grounds there was such gushing praise for McConville & McGrane and then all of a sudden they get tanked by Derry and its all P O'R's fault. Did the other two guys just disappear after the first round

[Armaghgeddon]

Amazing that when Armagh beat Down in Athletic Grounds there was such gushing praise for McConville & McGrane and then all of a sudden they get tanked by Derry and its all P O'R's fault. Did the other two guys just disappear after the first round

Well it is.

McGrane and McConville were brought in to improve mf and forwards which they did.
What fucked Armagh up was the lack of tactical knowledge shown by POR and the serious weakness in the teams mentality.
Mentality of players is down to the management, They stopped trying in the final 10 minutes of the game. Look at the change in management has done to Donegal and Derry for example. Armagh beat both of them last year, this year we get beaten by Derry after they had a change in management. Even POR admitted the goals killed Armagh they didnt have the mental strength to cope with 3 blows like that. A couple of years ago Armagh would go down all guns blazing now they just fade out and let the what they perceive as the inevitable.
Changes were made too late and when they were made they were the wrong decisions.

[balladmaker]

It was the worst roasting I ever seen Ciaran McKeever getting, and that has to be laid squarely at the managements door, as it was apparent to everyone that McKeever was being destroyed.  However, judgement should be reserved on POR until Armagh's interest in this year's Championship ends.  Being involved at the Quarter Finals stage would be a big achievement for Armagh, but the Quarters seem a long way off at the minute.

[David McKeown]

The thing I'm struggling to fathom over the past few pages is why a consensus has been reached that Kildare have somehow got a weak squad, with limited resources compared to Armagh.

Armagh have 2-3 very good players, 2-3 very useful players, 5-6 county standard players, and are carrying the rest. Kildare have that, plus a little more. Only blinkererdom can convince you otherwise.

Armagh were sensational against Down in that every one of them apart from McDonnell played as well they can. But that's the exception for Armagh, not the norm, as the players just aren't good enough.

If McGeeney was silly enough to take the Armagh job next season he might improve them. But only from 8th-9th best team in Ireland to the 7th-8th best team in Ireland. That's their threshold; they can't go beyond it.

Without wanting to sound like a broken record I simply don't agree with that. There is as much if not more talent in that squad than 28-30 other squads in the country, the players records with other teams and and previous Armagh sides prove that.  I think although I may be wrong that 14 of the 15 who started against Down had played in an All Ireland final at one level or other in either a different side or in a previous Armagh side.  Added to that are a former player of the year and a former young player of the year.  That said Armagh are for me barely a top 12 side at the minute, they are much weaker than the sum of the parts and for me the blame for that has to rest with the management.

[David McKeown]

It was the worst roasting I ever seen Ciaran McKeever getting, and that has to be laid squarely at the managements door, as it was apparent to everyone that McKeever was being destroyed.  However, judgement should be reserved on POR until Armagh's interest in this year's Championship ends.  Being involved at the Quarter Finals stage would be a big achievement for Armagh, but the Quarters seem a long way off at the minute.

A team in division 1 who were able to comfortably beat last years all Ireland finalists should not see a quarter final as a big achievement it should be the very minimum expected for that team.  Armagh should not only be getting to All ireland Quarter Finals they should be highly competitive in them, thats not an unrealistic ambition.

[ck]

For those who ever backed O'Rourke yesterday certainly showed yous up. Brennan totally showed him up on the line with his decisions.
How did Vincie Martin start. Hes slow useless and should be nowhere near the team and then getting him to mark Lynch. Is O'Rourke on a different planet? Lynch is a flying machine was always going to destroy him. Then he leaves him on him  to he gets injured. Brennan switched Brian Og after 10 mins. Next thing yes he was right to try and play the same way against down but after 10 15 mins a blind man could see we were having serious problems in the full back line especially with eoin bradley. He had to be double marked i.e a sweeper which we played to beat them last year. A gud manager has to be able to switch the gameplan if its not working. I have seen Mickey Harte do it so many times if his full back line getting destroyed he changes it and will bring joe mcmahon or someone back in front of them.  These games are won by small thing on the field and by decisions made on the line. Our problem is we have the weakest line probably in the country. Such a joke. Joe Brolly summed it up exactly "Paddy O'Rourke is just a bad manager."Why did our county board employ this tube and why do they continue to employ him!
Everything and I mean every resource and every gaa person in the county should be working from now on getting McGeeney into the Armagh job for next year!!!!!!

Did Joe Brolly really sya that?!!!!!!

[PAULD123]

Firstly on Armagh – Armagh are in the top 10 or so teams in the country. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone are the teams with real expectation on them but then Armagh, Down, Derry, Kildare, Donegal, Galway & Mayo are all on a second  tier that on any given day could win a match against anyone, but would require a decent bit of luck to get all the way to an AI final (which we got last year). A quarter is a realistic target for Armagh, as it is for any of those teams. O'Rourke has overseen them maintain that status but has proven unable to lift them above it. He cannot seem to make them more than the sum of their parts. POR doesn't make Armagh worse than they would be under most managers but he doesn't make them better.

Secondly on Kildare – McGeeney had every bit as much talent at his disposal as Armagh had last year. They had probably the best midfielder in Ireland in Dermot Early and a scoring phenomenon in Doyle. There's your two exceptional players to match McDonnell and Clarke. Also what about Flynn and Lynch? Who he had then too. For by that the rest of the squad are a bit unsung but are all similar talent to most of those in the Armagh squad. Most importantly do you think Kildare have worse players than Donegal or Laois, who finished ahead of them? That's underperformance. McGeene's major improvement to Kildare is to make them work as hard as Armagh and thus has taken them close to the level of Armagh. There are no great tactical genius moves from the Kildare bench, it's all about effort.

Whitegoodman summed it up best – "POR may not be a good manager but he isnt the worst in the world and mcgeeny isn't the messiah!!!"

[Applesisapples]

Firstly on Armagh – Armagh are in the top 10 or so teams in the country. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone are the teams with real expectation on them but then Armagh, Down, Derry, Kildare, Donegal, Galway & Mayo are all on a second  tier that on any given day could win a match against anyone, but would require a decent bit of luck to get all the way to an AI final (which we got last year). A quarter is a realistic target for Armagh, as it is for any of those teams. O'Rourke has overseen them maintain that status but has proven unable to lift them above it. He cannot seem to make them more than the sum of their parts. POR doesn't make Armagh worse than they would be under most managers but he doesn't make them better.

Secondly on Kildare – McGeeney had every bit as much talent at his disposal as Armagh had last year. They had probably the best midfielder in Ireland in Dermot Early and a scoring phenomenon in Doyle. There's your two exceptional players to match McDonnell and Clarke. Also what about Flynn and Lynch? Who he had then too. For by that the rest of the squad are a bit unsung but are all similar talent to most of those in the Armagh squad. Most importantly do you think Kildare have worse players than Donegal or Laois, who finished ahead of them? That's underperformance. McGeene's major improvement to Kildare is to make them work as hard as Armagh and thus has taken them close to the level of Armagh. There are no great tactical genius moves from the Kildare bench, it's all about effort.

Whitegoodman summed it up best – "POR may not be a good manager but he isnt the worst in the world and mcgeeny isn't the messiah!!!"

Would agree with the last line there, but Armagh need more than not the worst manager to get things back on track. There has been a lot of good talent coming through in the last number of years, particularly minor, where are they?

[gander]

....Everything and I mean every resource and every gaa person in the county should be working from now on getting McGeeney into the Armagh job for next year!!!!!!

Tevez, I think there is a near mythological obsession with McGeeny. He has failed to get Kildare out of Division 2 and I honestly belive they will lose to Dublin next week. Where will that leave McGeeney as this great manager that you so desperately want? It will leave him in exactly the same place as Armagh are right now. Of course they might win but I honestly belive Dublin have too much for them. You have to remember that McGeeney has one excellent championship run behind him, but that came with two bad league campaigns. Also they rode their luck in the championship with an escape against Antrim. They could easily have been the nobody's of 2010.

Sometimes the grass is greener!!!!

I agree with you I don't think Geezer is the answer. He's allegedly on too much in Kildare. If he comes to Armagh it will only be when the pot runs dry in Kildare. Time for McAlinden, McGrane and McConville to ride to the rescue.

McAlinden had his day with the seniors, did a good job and took them as far as he could.  Appointing him would be a backward step I think.  Also the U21s havent won a game in 2 years under him.

[ardtole]

Im suprised no one has mentioned Tony McEntee and Gareth O'Neill as possible successors to O'Rourke, they had an amazing first season in charge of crossmaglen. When they took over a lot of people thought they were in transition but they won the all-ireland, I dont know the two lads at all but surely they would be on the short list at least.

I think Paddy O'Rourkes days are numbered to be honest I get the impression the Armagh support are just waiting for the team to get beat and Paddy will be made to go, it was a strange appointment at the time and I dont think he will be there next season.

[ck]

Armagh would seem to have more potential candidates out there than any other county. There are Armagh men in high level football jobs all over the country yet Armagh are managed by a Down man. Some of these would include,
Kieran McGeeney (Kildare) Aiden O'Rourke (Kildare), Grimley (Meath), Justin McNulty (Laois), McEntee (Cross) Cathal O'Rourke and Ger Reid (Queen's), Enda McNulty (Leinster Rugby), Paul McGrane (Ballyhegan) - (Are there more?), not to mention the many Armagh lads doing good jobs in lower profile positions in clubs.

[Bensars]

Once again the manager is being hung out to dry. Admittedly he may not be the best tactical manager on the line but a hell of a lot of the responsibility must go down to the players too.
All this talk of the glory years is slightly misguided. Even with Armagh at their best 2002-2004 they didnt hammer teams. They played to their streths and ground out results. The difference with the current squad is firstly thaey dont have the same quality at the back. Bellew Mc Geeney and co wouldnt have allowed 3 goals to be scored in the manner in which they were. They had a stronger midfield and distributuon into the forward line was faster. Thirdly the forward unit was a hell of a lot more economical.

All in all the expectation of where Armagh are at is too high. Possibly artifically enhanced due to the defeat of Down. But to blame the Manager exclusively has to be questioned. Some of the players had checked out long before the final whistle.

Would agree with a lot of Wobbler says above.

[Armaghgeddon]

Once again the manager is being hung out to dry. Admittedly he may not be the best tactical manager on the line but a hell of a lot of the responsibility must go down to the players too.
All this talk of the glory years is slightly misguided. Even with Armagh at their best 2002-2004 they didnt hammer teams. They played to their streths and ground out results. The difference with the current squad is firstly thaey dont have the same quality at the back. Bellew Mc Geeney and co wouldnt have allowed 3 goals to be scored in the manner in which they were. They had a stronger midfield and distributuon into the forward line was faster. Thirdly the forward unit was a hell of a lot more economical.

All in all the expectation of where Armagh are at is too high. Possibly artifically enhanced due to the defeat of Down. But to blame the Manager exclusively has to be questioned. Some of the players had checked out long before the final whistle.

Would agree with a lot of Wobbler says above.

What a ridicuolous statement. You wouldn't expect them to, most of the time they would be going through the championship through the provincials and Ulster for the last 10 years and Ulster was not exactly a walkover. Quarter final where provincial champions are introduce, well it is a free for all with the top 8 in the country.

When they went through the qualifiers in 2003 they hammered Limerick 4-10 to 0-11 in the QF and beat Waterford 2-21 to 0-8. Also beating Antrim and Dublin along the way. 2004 they beat Monaghan 2-19 to 0-10 and beat Donegal 3-15 to 1-11 in Ulster. 2005 seen Armagh beat Fermanagh 2-12 to 1-7, beat Donegal 3-11 to 1-10 in a replay and then beat Laois 2-17 to 1-11.

Thats 7 teams they hammered (and by hammered I would say by more that 7+ points). If Armagh lost by 7 points or more id consider it a hammering also. We have recieved three of these...Kerry 2006. Monaghan 2010. Derry 2011. Thats two hammerings in the space of 12 months. Hopefully he can turn things around but if he dosent, I wouldn't blame Armagh fans for wanting him out.

[redandblackareback]

Armagh would seem to have more potential candidates out there than any other county. There are Armagh men in high level football jobs all over the country yet Armagh are managed by a Down man. Some of these would include,
Kieran McGeeney (Kildare) Aiden O'Rourke (Kildare), Grimley (Meath), Justin McNulty (Laois), McEntee (Cross) Cathal O'Rourke and Ger Reid (Queen's), Enda McNulty (Leinster Rugby), Paul McGrane (Ballyhegan) - (Are there more?), not to mention the many Armagh lads doing good jobs in lower profile positions in clubs.

First of all its ridiculous to blame POR for the defeat, wobbler is right, the players are just not there anymore. Armagh lost men, great leaders and it will take a while before some of the current squad develop into that, bit similiar to ourselves...

As for the comment above... The simple reason bar the last name mention there why they wouldnt be considered for the Armagh job...

£

Thats why ;-)  they all love the above

[Applesisapples]

Armagh would seem to have more potential candidates out there than any other county. There are Armagh men in high level football jobs all over the country yet Armagh are managed by a Down man. Some of these would include,
Kieran McGeeney (Kildare) Aiden O'Rourke (Kildare), Grimley (Meath), Justin McNulty (Laois), McEntee (Cross) Cathal O'Rourke and Ger Reid (Queen's), Enda McNulty (Leinster Rugby), Paul McGrane (Ballyhegan) - (Are there more?), not to mention the many Armagh lads doing good jobs in lower profile positions in clubs.

First of all its ridiculous to blame POR for the defeat, wobbler is right, the players are just not there anymore. Armagh lost men, great leaders and it will take a while before some of the current squad develop into that, bit similiar to ourselves...

As for the comment above... The simple reason bar the last name mention there why they wouldnt be considered for the Armagh job...

£

Thats why ;-)  they all love the above

I would concede the money bit, but as for the rest you obviously know SFA about Armagh football and the players available.