Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[sheamy]

The GAA needs to bring in rules about outside managers.  No one form outside a county should be allowed to manage a county.  Same rules need to apply to managers as players.

Why? Look at the expertise someone like Dinny Cahill can bring to Antrim Hurling or Geezer in Kildare or Micko or Mickey Moran.

Why? Because by and large outside managers are paid managers. If these individuals (not solely directed at the name above) were so passionate about the game why don't they go and take minor or u21 teams in their own counties for expenses only? It's all about the cash lads. Make no mistake about it. It distorts the whole scene and I cannot stress that enough.

Certainly that may be the case but at a time when the Ulster Council has more employees than Tesco why is it not ok for Counties to buy in expertise? Physios and Docters are paid, county secretaries are paid, perhaps if it was legitimised with appropriate rates of pay?

The difference is the Ulster Council employees are paid out of tax payers money (by and large). When or if that dried up the Ulster Council would have to get rid of those people. Managers would and are being be paid out of club/county money - money hard earned and needed to keep clubs going.

[Applesisapples]

The GAA needs to bring in rules about outside managers.  No one form outside a county should be allowed to manage a county.  Same rules need to apply to managers as players.

Why? Look at the expertise someone like Dinny Cahill can bring to Antrim Hurling or Geezer in Kildare or Micko or Mickey Moran.

Why? Because by and large outside managers are paid managers. If these individuals (not solely directed at the name above) were so passionate about the game why don't they go and take minor or u21 teams in their own counties for expenses only? It's all about the cash lads. Make no mistake about it. It distorts the whole scene and I cannot stress that enough.

Certainly that may be the case but at a time when the Ulster Council has more employees than Tesco why is it not ok for Counties to buy in expertise? Physios and Docters are paid, county secretaries are paid, perhaps if it was legitimised with appropriate rates of pay?

The difference is the Ulster Council employees are paid out of tax payers money (by and large). When or if that dried up the Ulster Council would have to get rid of those people. Managers would and are being be paid out of club/county money - money hard earned and needed to keep clubs going.

Well actually in fairness many of those paid managers are getting money from companies who would not put it directly in to the county. I would agree that counties such as Armagh and Derry should not need outside help, but I suspect that some inside candidates would still need paying. I would also say that given what is expected of the average intercounty manager it would be hard earned.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Its not one bit harsh Rufus. Duggan came in with much promise but has proved to be a very weak chairman with little competence in the way of leadership. The acceptance of POR for another year but dressing it up with new clothes is just the most high profile example.

Maybe there's a bigger problem here. Maybe the structures and politics of the county chairman's role does not allow for independent thinking or initiative? Maybe the perceived CEO type role is not workable and maybe the chairman is not weak of his own volition?

The questions you ask suggest to me that you know as much as I do about the actual intricacies of the Chairman's role. On the basis that I do not know, I will not rush to judge.

I've said it before on this thread, but I'll repeat again - simply getting rid of POR is not an option if there is no adequate replacement. Many of the names touted as replacements are likely to be unavailable for numerous reasons.

Furthermore, I believe that it could be argued by some that POR has done enough to justify another year, i.e. Championship win over All Ireland Finalists Down, retention of Division One status after getting us there. Now, as people are happy to add 2 + 2 and get 5 on this Board, I should state that I would have issue with this view - however it is possible that there are those in power who genuinely feel that retaining POR is justified on the basis of his tenure to date - and issues of 'weakness' and 'competence' therefore do not apply.

With respect Rufus, I strongly disagree with the point you make which I've highlighted. Armagh are a Division 1 team with a reasonably talented bunch of players. Whether they are absolutely top class is debatable but as managerial propositions go, I'd say there'd be no shortage of contenders, inside and outside the county.

The process must surely be two phased. The first decision to make is whether Paddy O'Rourke merits another season in charge of Armagh, based on his record in the past two years. My own strong view is that he does not and that his services should be dispensed with and a new manager sought.

Yes, there is a risk that the new man could be even more unsuitable and we head further into the doldrums but I firmly believe that it is a risk worth taking. Better to take a chance on a new manager who might do a poor job than retain the present incumbent under whom further stagnation appears certain.

[Rufus T Firefly]

With respect Rufus, I strongly disagree with the point you make which I've highlighted. Armagh are a Division 1 team with a reasonably talented bunch of players. Whether they are absolutely top class is debatable but as managerial propositions go, I'd say there'd be no shortage of contenders, inside and outside the county.

My guess would be Tac that if the contenders were asked to do the job on POR's terms and conditions, then the list of candidates would shrink dramatically.

[Real Talk]

With respect Rufus, I strongly disagree with the point you make which I've highlighted. Armagh are a Division 1 team with a reasonably talented bunch of players. Whether they are absolutely top class is debatable but as managerial propositions go, I'd say there'd be no shortage of contenders, inside and outside the county.

My guess would be that if the contenders were asked to do the job on POR's terms and conditions, then the list of candidates would shrink dramatically.

You are correct, that is the crux of the matter

[redandblackareback]

I see Heaney reports today in the irish news that the Armagh county board have found this new "super coach"  any word on who his identity is considering A O Rourke has ruled himself out?

[sheamy]

I see Heaney reports today in the irish news that the Armagh county board have found this new "super coach"  any word on who his identity is considering A O Rourke has ruled himself out?

They're playing a blinder on this PR wise. He'd need to be some pup as he'll he known as the 'super coach' from now on.

[Club Rossa]

Maybe it's John Morrison,he parted company with Eglish at the weekend.

[sheamy]

Maybe it's John Morrison,he parted company with Eglish at the weekend.

fck ya, you beat me to it!

[DuffleKing]

Jaysus, I couldn't see that ending well for anyone.

I wouldn't expect armagh to go that direction again anyway

[Ulick]

At least we'd go down laughing.

[5 Sams]

I see Heaney reports today in the irish news that the Armagh county board have found this new "super coach"  any word on who his identity is considering A O Rourke has ruled himself out?

Maybe it's one of Moley's new double deckers with the toilet/wifi/tv and everything

[sheamy]

Morrison would be all over that lads...

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

I can only imagine what the players make of this farce. Their dirty linen laid out bare for the world to see thanks to a source within either the team or the county board briefing one of Irish journalism's more smug offerings.

I genuinely don't know whether to laugh or cry. In the most important role in Armagh football we have a man who patently is unfit for the job he is expected to do yet rather than take the obvious course and bring in fresh management, there appear to be desperate efforts to save face and rescue the situation with an almost unprecedented definition of roles. It would seem that those presiding over our county's football are more concerned with propping up O'Rourke's failed regime than taking the decisive action necessary. In relation to those who wish to retain Paddy O'Rourke as manager, it saddens me to say that this view appears so far detached from reality that I must question whether those who hold it really have the best interests of Armagh at heart.

People refer to the constraints placed upon the present manager, I don't pretend to know the nuances of these though I have fair idea where they come from. If these constraints are restricting our choice of manager, then those who insist upon them need to consider their positions.

[DuffleKing]

Does anyone have whatever aidan o'rourke said in the paper today about this?