Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[ck]

POR on Sunday Game earlier saying he wants to stay but it's up to the county board.

[lawnseed]

just watched paddy on tv after the match he is not quitting unless the county board ask him to.  this shows hes doesnt give a shite about armagh football otherwise he'd quit. also the rugby fittness guy has to go our players are too slow, fast forwards are simply running around them.  major surgery is needed paddy is not a surgen. i prefer brian mc alinden i think he'd come up with a formula to sort this group of players out. i know alot of people dont like him but he has had some success any one would be better than por

[eriugaMS]

Some good posts on this point in the past number of days.

I always hate losing to Tyrone because they really rub it in..... and to be honest they really are a hateful shower ..... but it is tempered this year with the hope that it may mean O'Rourke leaves.

His tactics are easy to read in my opinion and he has not honestly brought on one player from the great underage structures we have.

What did he do with a great emerging Down squad - nothing

Ditto with Armagh..........

The county board shafted all supporters with his appointment.... who remembers the video of him accepting the job late at night with the sun glaring in through the windows.......?
That prima facie interview shows how malevolent the county board has acted towards the faithful who follow the team week in and out.

Geezer could have brought on board a hefty financial package with Grimley as so many know (check out SUFC) and that would have been the ticket we all wanted.

But we can't change the past and we need a dedicated Armagh duo or triumvirate to lead and motivate the Team

AOR & Tony Mac have proved their capabilites at county and university level........... Give them a chance perhaps with Grimley part of the set up if he would say yes....... McGrane and Oisin to continue as some part of the team and there is the nucleus of something to  move forward and bring Francie onboard as we were too easily outmuscled against the Sh1ts..... he could show them how to grow a set of balls.......

One more point..... McKinney never got the proper chance he deserved and we are ruing that to this present day


Anyway rant over

[lawnseed]

totally agree on mckinney the lad couldnt have bought a starting place i thought he was outstanding. also this hearty boob is the latest in a series of boobs hes a lovely lad but he creates havoc when he starts trying to play football and his backs are in a constant state of panic. i also notice he doesnt boob with cross..  so i dont know whats going on there

[ziggysego]

I always hate losing to Tyrone because they really rub it in..... and to be honest they really are a hateful shower .....

[Gaffer]

I always hate losing to Tyrone because they really rub it in..... and to be honest they really are a hateful shower .....

Don t worry, some day you will beat us ................  some day !

[Orior]

Good post TYP.

The only positive I took from the last couple of games is that POR finally stopped bringing on Johnny Murtagh.

Yes, I'd like to see a new manager now.

But we also need to find some new county standard players, particularly in midfield.  And as Joe Brolly (and board members here) have pointed out on numerous occasions - AK is not a defender.

The team for Div 1 next year should be

           Hearty
Mallon Donaghy  Moriarity
Duffy  McKeever Dyas
     Toner Vernon
Aaron   Mackin   BJP
Clarke   Stevie    MOR

(Cant believe I'm talking about the league, but we are Div One!)

[mountainboii]

Good post TYP.

The only positive I took from the last couple of games is that POR finally stopped bringing on Johnny Murtagh.

Yes, I'd like to see a new manager now.

But we also need to find some new county standard players, particularly in midfield.  And as Joe Brolly (and board members here) have pointed out on numerous occasions - AK is not a defender.

The team for Div 1 next year should be

           Hearty
Mallon Donaghy  Moriarity
Duffy  McKeever Dyas
     Toner Vernon
Aaron   Mackin   BJP
Clarke   Stevie    MOR

(Cant believe I'm talking about the league, but we are Div One!)

If that's what we're lining out next year then I reckon I'll give it a miss. New blood is needed. Peter Harte and Kyle Coney are starting for Tyrone three years after winning a minor AI, it would be depressing to think that we are looking at not a single first team graduate from our AI winning team within the same time scale.

[Orangemac]

Good post TYP.

The only positive I took from the last couple of games is that POR finally stopped bringing on Johnny Murtagh.

Yes, I'd like to see a new manager now.

But we also need to find some new county standard players, particularly in midfield.  And as Joe Brolly (and board members here) have pointed out on numerous occasions - AK is not a defender.

The team for Div 1 next year should be

           Hearty
Mallon Donaghy  Moriarity
Duffy  McKeever Dyas
     Toner Vernon
Aaron   Mackin   BJP
Clarke   Stevie    MOR

(Cant believe I'm talking about the league, but we are Div One!)

Aaron Kernan was tried in HF line last year with no success and he never seems to be exposed when playing for Cross so I'm not sure moving him again is the answer. Sorting a role for Aaron Kernan and Charlie Vernon ( undoubtedly talented player but unable to really nail down a position) will be a priority for whoever is in charge next year.

Defence still looks suspect on paper. McKeown from Cross needs to come into the Full back line and possibly McKenna given some more game time.

Main positives from this year have been Mackins consistent performances and M O'Rourkes creativity and chiipping in with scores from the HF line.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Where to start on this one?

First things first, I get the impression that POR is an honourable and decent man, and the fact that he is over on our side of the Clanrye River, doing it for expenses only (and I don't mean "expenses") reinforces that impression. There are many other names mentioned here as alternatives - all Armagh men - who wouldn't do it for that. That is not a criticism of them by the way; just stating it as I see it.

The stick he gets therefore does not sit comfortably with me. Don't get me wrong, he wouldn't have been my choice at the time but I felt once in place, he should be given a chance. Now after two years, it's time to look back. I think the criticisms that AFS outlined above are what struck me as the main issues. There seems to be no consistent approach, no long term plan, with regard to the direction the team is going, both in terms of play and personnel.

As regards play, I thought we played some very negative football throughout the league this year, and brought back memories of the Wexford nightmare of 2008. Yet come Championship, there was an absolute transformation in our style, going traditional 15 against 15, man for man. Consequently we were involved in some very open and thrilling games - real shoot outs - but given our resources, we were always going to lose out. (Our open style of play struck me as very naive - it would have not taken much tinkering to have made it into an effective gameplan that helped protect our defence and allowed us to attack in numbers greater than two.) Last year, the opposite happened - we played great stuff in the league - culminating in a great perfomance against Down in Croke Park, but reverted to type for the Championship, relying on two excellent forwards in attack, with the rest of the team sat back. 

There are similar inconsistencies in personnel, with selctions giving the impression that decisions were being made on the last match only. Thus as an example, Finn Mo plays most of the league, disappears and then comes back in as a regular. Young Grugan started off well at the beginning of the year, but after a dip in form in which he was (rightly) dropped, he has disappeared off the face of the earth. Mal Mackin - wing half, full forward, wing half - Kevin Dyas corner back, half back, half foward, half back. The impression given is of a management making reactionary decisions. 

As regards what is happening within the camp, I would have to say that I have no first hand knowledge of what is going on, save for the rumour mill like everyone else. That said, I spoke to two different people who I felt would be in a position to know, and both of whom I would regard as very reliable, and yet they gave absolutely contrasting views on what was going on!!!

I've often said that I feel this Armagh team might be top eight if prepared right and avoiding injuries, bad luck etc. Up until now, I thought they were underachieving. However after reflecting on last night, I'm beginning to doubt that analysis. Maybe we are where we should be - round 3 of the qualifiers, and that's it. We stayed up in Division One this year on the back of two wins, one of which was an absolute robbery of Monaghan in the Gaelic Field - they went down as a result.

Last night we were beaten by the better team, despite playing some good football for long periods, with our game yet again liberally sprinkled with unforced errors, that once gain were punished. It happens all the time. Top class players don't make the mistakes our players consistently make! And what's more, I don't think you can blame management for that.

So getting back to the question of management, where does all of the above leave us? What I reckon is there are better managers out there, but I'm not so sure that the more consistent and balanced game plan that I crave will do an awful lot for our place in the overall standings. We cannot change the players we have. Would there be much to be gained by a large investment in a new manager, even if the finance is there? What if there is no money for new managment - there is not much money to go around, and we have a significant debt to take care of around the redevelopment of the ground - if there's no money, suddenly replacing a manager might not be as an attractive a propostion!!

People can come on here and give off about the way the management situation has been dealt with by the County Board since the end of 2006, and I would share those concerns. But that's in the past, and nothing can be done to change that - it's gone! We have to look to the future. We will not be back at the top table until we have changes in personnel on the pitch. I have said in the past that our minor forwards of 2009 hold the key to the future. Let us hope that whoever is manager next year, and the year after, recognises that, and makes plans accordingly.         

[tevez]

The county board are rotten to the core every single one of them! They should all be put out and a new board elected DEMOCRATICALLY! They don't seem to care about Armagh football and they definetl don't listen to what the genuine supporter thinks!

[David McKeown]

Excellent post Rufus but I would be worried about the emphasis placed on finances in your analysis. Even if the moneys not there to the extent needed to attract the top money men, efforts need to be made to attract someone. The minor management for example deserve a shot and although maybe a year or two with the u21 would be beneficial I'd have them ahead of giving POR another year. Christ I'd even take JK back.

I might overrate the current group of players but I think at least on paper we should be top 6 and able to be competitive.  Earlier on this thread I went through the players achievements with teams pre this POR Armagh team and I think came to the conclusion that at most only two of them hadn't competiting in an AI final at one level or another so for me the quality of the player is there we just need a manager who can harvest it. POR has shown he can't .

All that said I fully expect him to waste another year in charge next year as the CB would have too much egg on their face if they pushed him out.

[Goats Do Shave]

The county board are rotten to the core every single one of them! They should all be put out and a new board elected DEMOCRATICALLY! They don't seem to care about Armagh football and they definetl don't listen to what the genuine supporter thinks!

An extremely harsh over reaction! I'd have a lot of time for some of the County Board. They give up a lot of their time for the good of Armagh football.

Mr Tevez... what have you done for your county?

[Applesisapples]

A lot of criticism of O'Rourke in the last two years has been over the top and of the bar stool variety. Unfortunately, this has lead to the drowning out and easy dismissal of merited criticisms. But these do exist.

As far as I'm concerned there are two major issues that O'Rourke has floundered on.

1. Despite having two full seasons to develop a system of play that maximizes the resources available, he is no further on in this task than the day he took over. Even the desperate chopping and changing of styles throughout this year's league failed to produce anything worth talking about. This absence of a structure that everyone bought into and could fall back on when things got tough, meant that we suffered some of the worst Championship collapses in decades.

2. There has been so little development in the last two seasons that it's hardly worth talking about. We're supposed to be a team 'in transition' with decent underage graduates to bring through. But we're not really doing any transitioning. The majority of the team has remained the same throughout the last two seasons. We've a big group of lads in their mid to late twenties stagnating in mediocrity. This stagnation alone should be reason enough for a change. The last two seasons have just been a waste of time.

I don't get this team in transition thing...why are Kerry never in transition?

[DuffleKing]

A lot of people seem to mix up the county board and the county executive.