Down V Armagh - Newry 26th Feb

[whitegoodman]

Well he has played there now close to 10 times and has had one skinning which is better than our previous attempts in that position. also provides a tremendous presence which can't be underestimated in modern football

[Orangemac]

When Aaron Kernan is available again he should be slotted into the half back line allowing Kevin Dyas to take a place in the half forward line. In addition Gareth O'Neill should be tried at full forward allowing Gareth Swift to get an opportunity to play at centre half forward. If Armagh could get the half forward line sorted out it would definitely get us over the line in these tight 1 or 2 point games.

1. Paul Hearty
2. Andy Mallon 3. Brendan  Donaghy 4. Finnian Moriarty
5. Aaron Kernan 6. Ciaran McKeever 7. Paul Duffy
7. Charlie Vernon 8. Kieran Toner
10. Kevin Dyas 11. Gareth Swift 12. Billy Jo Padden
13. Jamie Clarke 14. Gareth O'Neill or Ronan Clarke 15. Stevie McDonnell

Half forward line is definitely the main ( but not only) area of concern. Dyas is worth a look here and Swift played well in patches here last year but are there enough scores?

Grugan will be a good sub for last 15/20 mins but we need some pace in the HF line. Although it would mean moving him away from goals would it be worth risking moving Jamie Clarke out to the HF line?

[DuffleKing]

Forwards coach now?

People are losing the plot.

Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.

That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.

Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.

Get realistic chaps.

Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.

Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.

POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.

[oakleafgael]

Forwards coach now?

People are losing the plot.

Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.

That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.

Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.

Get realistic chaps.

Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.

Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.

POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.

Unless they have been hiding under a bushel who are these defenders?

[DuffleKing]

Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too

[BarryBreensBandage]

Forwards coach now?

People are losing the plot.

Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.

That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.


Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.

Get realistic chaps.

Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.

Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.

POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.

Would have to agree with this - although I wouldn't put the boot into Paddy just yet,as I think the championship is far from a foregone conclusion.

[guevara]

Yes but what you fail to recognise in your own analysis DK is that Down have made massive progress in this time. Under James McCartan the team has finally got a settled look about it.
In 2008 Armagh beat Cavan, Down & Fermanagh to win the Ulster Championship??? Hardly the hardest set of games they couldve faced that year? Down were totally inconsistent as were Fermanagh after early promise & Cavan were brutal!
Armagh's team that day was : Hearty; Mallon, Bellew, Moriarty; Donaghy, A O'Rourke, C McKeever; McGrane, Toner; Vernon, P McKeever, M O'Rourke; McDonnell, Clarke, S Kernan.

Out of that team the highlighted guys mentioned provided a massive amount of experience of winning tight games or grinding out results that Armagh didnt always deserve. They rovided leadership & filled pivotal roles within a quite young team. You can add to that Hearty who has an AI.
Of the 6 defenders that day 4 are still on your team now

[oakleafgael]

Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too

Mallon had great form a couple of years ago, doesnt seem near as sharp now. Donaghy isnt next nor near the best full back in Ulster, good footballer but you are overrating him. You are talking about better defenders and then you bring Duffy and Kernan into it? Dyas has potential but again where talking about now, same with McKeown. Would give you McKeever alright, Derry could be doing with someone like him at the minute.

[PAULD123]

Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too

Donaghy is good, McKeever is good. Mallon was roasted by Down speed and will be roasted again by a fast forward. You didn't even mention Moriarty, hardly surprising given his error count. Kernan is a decent attacker but is hardly a top class defender. Duffy is more interested in trying to get sneaky hits in than playing football. So in fact given Mallon's loss of speed Armagh have in fact two good defenders - Donaghy and McKeever, so as long as the opposition only have two good attackers they'll be fine.

Down have similar defensive issues but our solution is to turn them all into real footballers and train them to work as a unit so as to provide backup.

[DuffleKing]

I don't know why i'm answering you but i suppose there has to be newsround to go with newsnight.

A defence is not built on 6 out and out stoppers. in that regard we have 3 of the best who can also play football - that's 1 or 2 more than most decent defences. take down for example - no defenders individually at that level. other defenders in ulster at that level i would say justin McMahon, Karl Lacey, Darren Hughes, Barry Owens and a firing conor gormley.

Like a forward line, individual talent is not enough. Armagh are not defending as a unit and those three individuals are not playing well at the minute. Both i put at the door of management.

the other defenders on the squad are at least county standard. if you don't think moriarty, dyas, duffy, ak or McKeown can't do a good job on the three lesser threats in any forward line, particularly with the first three in place, then i don't know.

by the way - anyone who says that mallon is struggling because of pace is very poorly informed.

[mackers]

Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too

Mallon had great form a couple of years ago, doesnt seem near as sharp now. Donaghy isnt next nor near the best full back in Ulster, good footballer but you are overrating him. You are talking about better defenders and then you bring Duffy and Kernan into it? Dyas has potential but again where talking about now, same with McKeown. Would give you McKeever alright, Derry could be doing with someone like him at the minute.

The highlighted bit definitely qualifies for d1ckhead post of the year!!! Darren Hughes gave a great exhibition of full back play against us (and he would normally play HB as far as I am aware), outside of that I've haven't seen anybody in Ulster to better him.

[PAULD123]

So according to Dufflelking Armagh only need three defenders. Well done, that will take care of teams that only have three attackers. Of course it would need those opposition teams to be awful decent and play their only three decent attackers at CHF for McKeever to mark, Full Forward for Donaghy to mark and one in the corner for Mallon to Mark. I'm sure the rest of the county managers will have no problem accommodating you on this one.

God forbid they may actually put of a strong half forward line like Coulter-Clarke-Hughes. That would just be unfair on poor Donaghy having to waste his time marking the "Weaker" forward Ronan Murtagh who incidentally caught everything on Saturday and scored two points from play against him.

And it would be a disgrace if Cork decided to play a full-forward line of Goulding-O'Connor-Sheehan. Surely one of these boys should be placed at CHF for McKeever to mark, mind you Cork would probably be happy to move Pearse O'Neill in form the right wing to centre just to accommodate McKeever. They wouldn't be so selfish as to have him up against Duffy who is not meant to be defending in Duffleking's system.

Come on now don't be silly. You don't get to choose where the "lesser threats" come from, nor do you get to dictate that the opposition are only allowed to play three good attackers. If you play two non-defensive wing backs then your wings will get torn apart by the top 4-5 teams in the country.

[DuffleKing]

So according to Dufflelking Armagh only need three defenders. Well done, that will take care of teams that only have three attackers. Of course it would need those opposition teams to be awful decent and play their only three decent attackers at CHF for McKeever to mark, Full Forward for Donaghy to mark and one in the corner for Mallon to Mark. I'm sure the rest of the county managers will have no problem accommodating you on this one.

God forbid they may actually put of a strong half forward line like Coulter-Clarke-Hughes. That would just be unfair on poor Donaghy having to waste his time marking the "Weaker" forward Ronan Murtagh who incidentally caught everything on Saturday and scored two points from play against him.

And it would be a disgrace if Cork decided to play a full-forward line of Goulding-O'Connor-Sheehan. Surely one of these boys should be placed at CHF for McKeever to mark, mind you Cork would probably be happy to move Pearse O'Neill in form the right wing to centre just to accommodate McKeever. They wouldn't be so selfish as to have him up against Duffy who is not meant to be defending in Duffleking's system.

Come on now don't be silly. You don't get to choose where the "lesser threats" come from, nor do you get to dictate that the opposition are only allowed to play three good attackers. If you play two non-defensive wing backs then your wings will get torn apart by the top 4-5 teams in the country.

LOL. Football for the remedial class...

[whitegoodman]

To be fair armagh have a decent defence, donaghy would be up there with darren hughes and justin mcmahon as the top full back in ulster. McKeever is a leader and a good defender. Mallon was a great defender, he may be past his best but is still a decent defender.

The problem is not ur defence, u have currently one quality forward and Swift has also the potential to be one.  Other than that there is no threat and u dont win games against high quality opposition without a threat.  I dont see this as POR fault.  He may have many faults but this isnt one of them.  U can try all the systems or forward coaches u like but if u dont have the players u dont have them.  Armagh would need to find 2 half forwards and 1 full forward to make an all ireland semi final.

Jamie Clarke may be one of them but is largely unproven at the highest level, the derry match aside last year.  Ronan Clarke may or may not come back the same player so i wouldnt be relying on him to produce the goods if he ever does come back.

[PAULD123]

Duffleking - Do you just open your mouth and let any old tosh come out? Do you even consider the nonsense and contradiction that you spout? Here are your own comments in the last week alone:

DK - Anyway - Armagh by 3! - I think you'll find that they never even got three ahead let alone came close to winning by three

DK - We could actually ship you a load of defenders from beyond our panel who would start for down. -Maybe you should keep those defenders for yourself we seemed to do all right on Saturday as our defence conceded less points than yours

DK - Rooney wasn't even in the down team at the start of the championship last year - doh! yes he was and played every game

DK - Gordon is filling a hole at full back for down...we prefer our full backs to be able to tackle and stay with a forward when he turns - Seemed to stay with Stevie okay on Saturday night, only 1 point from play

DK - Thought dan gordon was very impressive - Sorry is that you contradicting yourself?

DK - Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone - ANYONE wow now that's a boast, Now you want to talk about laughable. Better defenders than ANYONE. Sure why don't we just crown you champions already and give you six all-stars as no one has better defenders.

DK - Football for the remedial class... - Lot of remedial comments up there from you DK, don't know your facts, contradicting yourself, making wild boasts, Hugely over optimistic predictions. So I'll make it remedial for you  - Down conceded 11 points, Armagh conceded 12 points. Down defenders conceded less than Armagh defenders. Down won.

Boast all you like but you won't change having only one win from three games. I'll just leave you to live in the comfort of your own delusions of grandeur. I'm sure you'll take comfort from having better defenders than ANYONE as you slip into the warmth of the relegation zone.