Michaela - The Aftermath (Please exercise discretion)

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Fair point Myles, a miscarriage would compound the tragedy ten-fold.

[gallsman]

Both of you have missed my point! while indeed it doesn't matter if he posts on the other thread i still can't understand why he can find the time to post here talking about lack of respect? when there's none here.

IMO he was looking for a reaction & got it

Because it's not up to you (or anyone) to judge his respect or place some form of benchmark or standard.

Or either is it up to him (or anyone) to question lack of respect in this thread. let the mods decide if the thread needs to be locked,deleted etc...

That's is opinion. In fairness the thread is titled "Michaela's Court Case" and was started barely a few days after the poor girl died - a while away from any court case. It could very easily be seen as a load of us baying for the blood of her killers instead of showing her, her husband and their families the respect and privacy they deserve.

All it takes is one eejit to come out with a shocking statement, like the one a few days ago calling for the men's throats to be cut. We are a better society than that.

[ross4life]

Both of you have missed my point! while indeed it doesn't matter if he posts on the other thread i still can't understand why he can find the time to post here talking about lack of respect? when there's none here.

IMO he was looking for a reaction & got it

Because it's not up to you (or anyone) to judge his respect or place some form of benchmark or standard.

Or either is it up to him (or anyone) to question lack of respect in this thread. let the mods decide if the thread needs to be locked,deleted etc...

That's is opinion. In fairness the thread is titled "Michaela's Court Case" and was started barely a few days after the poor girl died - a while away from any court case. It could very easily be seen as a load of us baying for the blood of her killers instead of showing her, her husband and their families the respect and privacy they deserve.

All it takes is one eejit to come out with a shocking statement, like the one a few days ago calling for the men's throats to be cut. We are a better society than that.

That's true but most of what's written here is already in the main-frame media & I'm sure if any disrespectful post shows up a simple PM will get them removed.

[gallsman]

Both of you have missed my point! while indeed it doesn't matter if he posts on the other thread i still can't understand why he can find the time to post here talking about lack of respect? when there's none here.

IMO he was looking for a reaction & got it

Because it's not up to you (or anyone) to judge his respect or place some form of benchmark or standard.

Or either is it up to him (or anyone) to question lack of respect in this thread. let the mods decide if the thread needs to be locked,deleted etc...

That's is opinion. In fairness the thread is titled "Michaela's Court Case" and was started barely a few days after the poor girl died - a while away from any court case. It could very easily be seen as a load of us baying for the blood of her killers instead of showing her, her husband and their families the respect and privacy they deserve.

All it takes is one eejit to come out with a shocking statement, like the one a few days ago calling for the men's throats to be cut. We are a better society than that.

That's true but most of what's written here is already in the main-frame media & I'm sure if any disrespectful post shows up a simple PM will get them removed.

We as a board community have no control over the mainstream media. We do have control over what appears on the board. While everybody wishes for swift justice, speculation and gossip does us all a disservice.

[armaghniac]

There is much talk of miscarriages on this thread. But in this case it seems that a limited number of people could have been involved, not at all the same as a case where the police haven't a clue where to start. The scenario put forward is plausible enough, in that the character not charged with murder seen the other two leaving the scene. When the pressure came on he would clearly be keen to emphasise that he didn't actually do it, so he would incriminate the other two. Leaving aside high tech DNA there could be old fashioned fingerprints and the like, these don't sound like the type of organised criminal that would not leave any traces.

I just think this was always a case where the culprits would be caught, which makes it more a tragedy that the murder did not benefit them in any way.

[tyssam5]

If they had a scam going whereby they did minor robberies on guests using staff room keys they could have been doing it for ages. However when an investigation starts their personal room keys would leave records as to what time they entered which room. (Some hotels store data such as your credit card number on your room key, there are supposed to wipe them but just in case I never return mine).

If there are records showing them entering the room a few minutes before Michaela they are in trouble.

If their staff duties show no reason for being in the room (e.g. it had been made up earlier in the day) they are in big trouble.

Different police forces might use confessions which we might find strange but there might be evidence such as the above that means the police have the correct people anyway.

I think that another one for snopes Muppet.

[Aaron Boone]

Those Mauritian tourist-hotels are like old NI-army bases, no chance with checkpoints et al of getting in unless you work there. Tourists (i.e. you and me) are king. It had to be an inside job, hence the cops saying on Monday an early arrest was expected.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

There is much talk of miscarriages on this thread. But in this case it seems that a limited number of people could have been involved, not at all the same as a case where the police haven't a clue where to start. The scenario put forward is plausible enough, in that the character not charged with murder seen the other two leaving the scene. When the pressure came on he would clearly be keen to emphasise that he didn't actually do it, so he would incriminate the other two. Leaving aside high tech DNA there could be old fashioned fingerprints and the like, these don't sound like the type of organised criminal that would not leave any traces.

I just think this was always a case where the culprits would be caught, which makes it more a tragedy that the murder did not benefit them in any way.

The word miscarriage will always be a powerfully emotive word for some Irish of a certain broad persuasion and time, and with good reason.

I think you're right though, there was a strictly limited pool of suspects (even if every employee in the hotel had access, potentially), it should, in theory be a fairly straightforward piece of routine detective work to narrow that number down. 

And here is the question: given that the cops have the DNA, why would anyone admit to a crime that they haven't committed in the knowledge that the DNA results will materialise sometime, in the relatively near future? Why put yourself through that hell unless you know that the DNA can only prove one thing, and that one thing is not your innocence?

[gallsman]

There is much talk of miscarriages on this thread. But in this case it seems that a limited number of people could have been involved, not at all the same as a case where the police haven't a clue where to start. The scenario put forward is plausible enough, in that the character not charged with murder seen the other two leaving the scene. When the pressure came on he would clearly be keen to emphasise that he didn't actually do it, so he would incriminate the other two. Leaving aside high tech DNA there could be old fashioned fingerprints and the like, these don't sound like the type of organised criminal that would not leave any traces.

I just think this was always a case where the culprits would be caught, which makes it more a tragedy that the murder did not benefit them in any way.

The word miscarriage will always be a powerfully emotive word for some Irish of a certain broad persuasion and time, and with good reason.

I think you're right though, there was a strictly limited pool of suspects (even if every employee in the hotel had access, potentially), it should, in theory be a fairly straightforward piece of routine detective work to narrow that number down. 

And here is the question: given that the cops have the DNA, why would anyone admit to a crime that they haven't committed in the knowledge that the DNA results will materialise sometime, in the relatively near future? Why put yourself through that hell unless you know that the DNA can only prove one thing, and that one thing is not your innocence?

One potential explanation, as people can on this island can testify to, is that confessions and admissions can be extracted under duress. I find the whole idea of suspects reenacting the thing very strange altogether. The police want a swift and public conviction, which is fair enough provided they have proof that these men are guilty and aren't just serving them up to the world's media.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

One potential explanation, as people can on this island can testify to, is that confessions and admissions can be extracted under duress. I find the whole idea of suspects reenacting the thing very strange altogether. The police want a swift and public conviction, which is fair enough provided they have proof that these men are guilty and aren't just serving them up to the world's media.

One of the individual's lawyers had no difficulty alleging abuse at the hands of the police for his client on the first day of the trial, so it would seem that the legal representation is robust enough, and is facilitated to give voice.

I don't understand how anyone, and I'm taking that the DNA evidence as eventual admissible fact, can admit to a crime regardless of the duress  (and there are no physical marks insofar as we can tell -- compare and contrast with the Birmingham 6), someone who has access to legal representation. That doesn't stack up for me, especially with the world's eye firmly fixed on proceedings. The more plausible scenario is the 3rd individual who's charged with conspiracy blowing the whistle on the other two -- unless all of those in the frame are at equal degrees of (potential) culpability that is always going to be a fatal weakness: It followed the revelation that a lawyer for Raj Theekoy, who is charged with conspiracy to murder, said his client had spoken to police and implicated the other two men.

So that's legal representation at play protecting his/her own client. And I accept fully that there's a small potential subset of guilty people here: the hotel's employees.

[ONeill]

You get the impression that an allegation by lawyers of police abuse is an oft-used initial tactic to stall and complicate proceedings.

[muppet]

If they had a scam going whereby they did minor robberies on guests using staff room keys they could have been doing it for ages. However when an investigation starts their personal room keys would leave records as to what time they entered which room. (Some hotels store data such as your credit card number on your room key, there are supposed to wipe them but just in case I never return mine).

If there are records showing them entering the room a few minutes before Michaela they are in trouble.

If their staff duties show no reason for being in the room (e.g. it had been made up earlier in the day) they are in big trouble.

Different police forces might use confessions which we might find strange but there might be evidence such as the above that means the police have the correct people anyway.

I think that another one for snopes Muppet.

Probably, but they still can record who entered the room and when, and they recommend returning or destroying them after use.

[Franko]

Gallsman are you deliberately trying to act the WUM

From this...

Both of you have missed my point! while indeed it doesn't matter if he posts on the other thread i still can't understand why he can find the time to post here talking about lack of respect? when there's none here.

IMO he was looking for a reaction & got it

Because it's not up to you (or anyone) to judge his respect or place some form of benchmark or standard.

Or either is it up to him (or anyone) to question lack of respect in this thread. let the mods decide if the thread needs to be locked,deleted etc...

That's is opinion. In fairness the thread is titled "Michaela's Court Case" and was started barely a few days after the poor girl died - a while away from any court case. It could very easily be seen as a load of us baying for the blood of her killers instead of showing her, her husband and their families the respect and privacy they deserve.

All it takes is one eejit to come out with a shocking statement, like the one a few days ago calling for the men's throats to be cut. We are a better society than that.

That's true but most of what's written here is already in the main-frame media & I'm sure if any disrespectful post shows up a simple PM will get them removed.

We as a board community have no control over the mainstream media. We do have control over what appears on the board. While everybody wishes for swift justice, speculation and gossip does us all a disservice.

And a few moments later...

There is much talk of miscarriages on this thread. But in this case it seems that a limited number of people could have been involved, not at all the same as a case where the police haven't a clue where to start. The scenario put forward is plausible enough, in that the character not charged with murder seen the other two leaving the scene. When the pressure came on he would clearly be keen to emphasise that he didn't actually do it, so he would incriminate the other two. Leaving aside high tech DNA there could be old fashioned fingerprints and the like, these don't sound like the type of organised criminal that would not leave any traces.

I just think this was always a case where the culprits would be caught, which makes it more a tragedy that the murder did not benefit them in any way.

The word miscarriage will always be a powerfully emotive word for some Irish of a certain broad persuasion and time, and with good reason.

I think you're right though, there was a strictly limited pool of suspects (even if every employee in the hotel had access, potentially), it should, in theory be a fairly straightforward piece of routine detective work to narrow that number down. 

And here is the question: given that the cops have the DNA, why would anyone admit to a crime that they haven't committed in the knowledge that the DNA results will materialise sometime, in the relatively near future? Why put yourself through that hell unless you know that the DNA can only prove one thing, and that one thing is not your innocence?

One potential explanation, as people can on this island can testify to, is that confessions and admissions can be extracted under duress. I find the whole idea of suspects reenacting the thing very strange altogether. The police want a swift and public conviction, which is fair enough provided they have proof that these men are guilty and aren't just serving them up to the world's media.

[gallsman]

What's the problem?

And how f**king dare you insinuate I'd act the WUM on a thread such as this you absolute cretin.

[Franko]

What's the problem?

And how f**king dare you insinuate I'd act the WUM on a thread such as this you absolute cretin.

I didnt insinuate it, I stated it.

Check the highlighted part - referring to speculation/gossip.  Then have a look at the piece of speculation/gossip which you posted below.

If you are going to get on your high horse about the apparent 'lack of respect' that a thread like this shows then you could at least refrain from engaging in the very activity which you apparently deem 'disrespectful'.

No need for the language either.