Are NI Water Fit for Purpose?

[MW]

I could have swore the rates was made up of the district rates which is the council basically and the regional rates which amongst other things pays towards water and sewage.

Heres a quote from a local council website

"Regional Rate - what is it used for?

The Regional Rate is set by Central Government and local Councils HAVE NO control over this. It is the same for all 26 Councils and is used to contribute to the cost of providing a range of services such as: - Education, Housing, Social Services, Roads, Water and Sewerage."

It would at least seem that there might still be some confusion on the matter.

The regional rate simply goes into the NI Executive's "pot", and it only makes up 5% of the total of the Executive's "income". As it's not hypothecated it could be said to be a contribution towards any of the services funded by the Executive.

Also metering strikes me as highly regressive, despite being a small family that would probably not suffer from it my natural sense of fair play would be irked by seeing a struggling large but low income family paying a large proportion of their income to pay for a fundamental commidity and human right (i don't think thats fair).

I think paying for a utility based on the amount of useage is inherently fair.

Would you expect some people to have their electricity, or oil, or gas subsidised by other people who are using less?

[clarshack]

Vandals dump 22,000l of water as families struggle

Vandals have opened valves on bowsers in County Tyrone and emptied out nearly 5,000 gallons (22,730 litres) of water.

About 2,000 homes in the area are still without a running water supply. NI Water filled the bowsers at Gortgonis Park, Coalisland on Friday for the weekend.

But during the night, vandals opened the valves and let the water run out.

It happened as NI Water revealed that 4,000 homes in Northern Ireland were still without supplies.

The worst affected areas are Cookstown, Warrenpoint, Burren and Hannahstown.

Northern Ireland's water crisis began before Christmas as a thaw in severe icy weather led to thousands of burst pipes at homes and businesses.

As a result, some people were left without water for nearly two weeks.

On Saturday, NI Water said that about 12,000 people in the Belfast area whose water was being turned on and off on a rotational basis should now have water.

Supplies may be rotated later in the evening.

As well as repairing the supply network, NI water says its staff are also inspecting private property for leaks. It is urging business owners and landlords to repair any burst pipes as a matter of urgency.

The company plans to refill the Coalisland bowsers later on Saturday.

Francie Molloy, who is MLA for the area, condemned those responsible for opening the valves.

"People thought that because this service was being provided that people would respect it and just can't believe that someone would be so callous as to actually open valves and just let that water flow away," he said.
'Vital water'

"Strangers didn't come in to do this, it was local people and it's the local people that are actually being deprived of vital water."

NI Water has issued a list of places in Belfast where water supplies should be restored by 1200 GMT on Saturday. They are in BT5, BT6 and BT18.

These include Lawnmount Street, Ravenhill Street, Ravenhill Avenue, Castlereagh Place, Hollycroft Road, Willowfield, Castlereagh, Ardenlee Avenue, east Belfast and Depot Road, Holywood.

NI Water interim chairman Padraic White has said he hoped there would be a gradual improvement in the coming days as reservoir levels rise.

doesnt surprise me in the slightest. that particular area is full of scum.

anyway still no water for me since Monday. its been a great week off!

[oakleafgael]

This answer to the problem we had this week for two days, it might be of interest to some of you, especially my friend Oakleafgael!

http://www.stopcockcosy.com/index.htm

Good man TYP, but they arent needed if the insulation that comes with the box is fitted properly, or is put back properly any time someone takes it out to turn off the water or read a meter.

[clarshack]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7939297.stm

what is worse - making a multi million forecast mistake or overseeing the current water fiasco?

[oakleafgael]

Our insulation was just a polystyrene disc.  It was suggested that I should fill the box with polystrene beads.  I intend to monitor the amount of water in the box and try to keep it dry.

Happy new year, Oakleafgael

TYP,

Thats all that is required if the lid if fitted correctly and the insulation is fitted correctly.

Happy new year to you also.

[tyroneboi]

doesnt surprise me in the slightest. that particular area is full of scum.

anyway still no water for me since Monday. its been a great week off!

And thats being kind clarshack!!

[Bogball XV]

When did that phrase 'fit for purpose' enter into common usage?  Was it some of the free state politicians talking about the dept of finance down here about 2 months ago - I don't like it at all tbh, is it even gramatically correct?  Can the nordies not invent their own catchphrases?

[el_cuervo_fc]

The civil service have been pushing that "fit for purpose" crap for the last few years.  With the impending review of public administration the aim is to enable an easy transfer of responsibilities.

[Milltown Row2]

"Fit for purpose" is a term used for quality.

So the question is, is NI Water Service giving "quality" to it's customers?

[tbrick18]

"Fit for purpose" is a term used for quality.

So the question is, is NI Water Service giving "quality" to it's customers?

The answer is an undoubted YES!

The quality of our water is first class.

The work carried out in extreme conditions by the men on the ground to repair the burst pipes was beyond reproach.  How many could have gone out in sub-zero conditions and carried out repairs on pipes and dug through mud when they should have been at home with their families at Christmas?

The work carried out in disposing of the sewage from our is first class.

Do we ever give a thought to this quality product from the hundreds of people working on a daily basis on jobs that most of us wouldn't want to do or even give much thought to when we turn on a tap, switch on a washing machine, take a bath or shower or flush the toilet?

It is vital to disconnect the response to the crisis by the management of NIW from the work by the employees in so many areas.

This thread made no distinction between managment and staff for a reason. NI Water are a "Company" comprising managment and staff. It wasnt intended to suggest who exactly in NI Water was to blame...purely to pose the question "Are NI Water fit to provide the service they are in place to provide?". I phrased this question as "fit for purpose" which some people seem to take offence to....whatever they like.
IMO NI Water as it is, is not capable of providing the service they are in place to provide. Someone mentioned quality of water, that very much depends on where you live. Ours isnt great at the best of times. I also know people who live in areas where the water goes off regulalry. A number of times every month without fail, with no explanation from NI Water. And now we have this episode.

[Main Street]

This answer to the problem we had this week for two days, it might be of interest to some of you, especially my friend Oakleafgael!

http://www.stopcockcosy.com/index.htm

Good man TYP, but they arent needed if the insulation that comes with the box is fitted properly, or is put back properly any time someone takes it out to turn off the water or read a meter.

As building regulations go, that stopcockcosy image is quite hare-brained.
The pipe from the mains to the private dwelling should be placed in a layer of sand some 6cm to 10cm below the frost line.


Blaming the fast thaw for burst pipes is akin to blaming the sudden stop for the damage, after a fall.

[Skiddybadoo]

When did that phrase 'fit for purpose' enter into common usage?  Was it some of the free state politicians talking about the dept of finance down here about 2 months ago - I don't like it at all tbh, is it even gramatically correct?  Can the nordies not invent their own catchphrases?

Fit for purpose is a phrase hundreds of years old. Saw it written in correspondence between a soldier and his mother during the English Civil War re his living quarters.  And I wonder why noone wants to go out for a beer with me...

[el_cuervo_fc]

So it wasn't the mexicans then??

Shame on you bogball

[wanderer]

I've been reading this with great interest over the past few days and thought I'd throw my thoughts down.

The basic problem is, and always will be money. The Water Service or whatever you want to call them now are run by and for people whose main motivation is cash. Same in Scotland, same in England (haven't worked in Wales so can't comment). As someone has said previously, there is a chronic lack of investment in infrastructure and to put the cherry on the cake the capital maintenance is poor to nonexistent.

IMHO the main issues are:

*Leakage (strictly speaking the wrong term but it'll do the job), basically unaccounted for water. The main problem with this is that there are a phenomenal number of illegal connections in NI. We have cattle troughs (for one example) overflowing 365 days that are connected to the mains and if they aren't overflowing they have invariably pipes above ground that go bang as soon as the thaw hits. Does the owner care? No chance, they aren't paying for it
*Metering. As a rule (bar a few private companies in England), the metering UK wide and beyond is woeful. Once authorities start transferring water and supplementing between reservoirs the meters are useless, which as a result means you can't strategically target leaks. Again there is big money spent on Framework Suppliers (the biggest waste of money in history), meters are installed by private companies, who commission them, get handed back to Water Company, get a 1hour presentation, water company pay no money on maintenance, meters stop working, no one knows how to use them, investigation awarded to private company, private company suggest new meters, and the charade starts all over again
*Water Quality. The price we pay for getting the water quality we do, is to increase flow rates to get the water from treatment to tap quickly. Water is better as a result, but pipes are smaller. When something happens, network can't cope and the only location that gets fed water is the burst.
*Accountability. KPI's etc have been tried before, and can help to an extent but its like anything in that people find a way around it very quickly, and work the system. If I say a leak has to be sorted within 24hours, the powers that be soon figure that if we shut the water down that will stop the leak and then it is classed as "in repair".
I have worked on a job where a competitor came in at 33% less. The authority asked us to match the price, we couldn't and warned them that other party could not deliver for that price either. Competitor done it, ends up costing both parties over 120% of our original cost. 6months later I am sitting across the desk from the idiot who awarded the job, preaching about how our costs are again 33% too high. When we pointed out the final cost, yer man hadn't even heard about it going over budget cause too many people were covering their ass

I could go on and on with all the things that are wrong with the system but the main one is, and always will be money.

Also this such and such has to go, his position is untenable cr*p is part of the problem. No one wants to make a decision in case they get the blame, and so no proper decisions get made. People are employed in high positions that have absolutely no clue how water networks, demand, pressure etc works and laughably they are deciding how money is spent. When in reality they shouldn't be allowed to lift their head from their own spreadsheet.

Rant finished

[Bogball XV]

So it wasn't the mexicans then??

Shame on you bogball

should've known that shower couldn't come up with something that catchy, apologies!

When did that phrase 'fit for purpose' enter into common usage?  Was it some of the free state politicians talking about the dept of finance down here about 2 months ago - I don't like it at all tbh, is it even gramatically correct?  Can the nordies not invent their own catchphrases?

And I wonder why noone wants to go out for a beer with me...

Maybe he's just interested in English the history of the english civil war too?  It could be a perfectly innocent pint and a bit of a chat about Prince Rupert and Marston Moor etc, if he drops the hand though.....