Gerry's moving south...

[stephenite]

Nordies - Know your place

[Maguire01]

correct maguire hes a failed politition. no matter he was man enough to stand for something and for what its worth i think he'd have made a good rep for his community

Failed? He fought one election and increased the party's vote in that constituency if i'm not mistaken. No doubt he'll take a seat in the Assembly election.

[Maguire01]

the point being magpie is that times change. in 1916 the boys were 'terrorists' now they are heroes.

How long do you reckon before the current dissidents are heroes?

[Zapatista]

Mocking. That well known form of intelligent discourse. 

As it happens you are wrong on your assertion, much and all as I wish I was had the salary of the head of a large multi national.

There's a clue though in your thinking with your comments. "If you are someone in that position then, as I stated earlier - I wouldn't expect you to say anything other than that." - the politics of Mé Féin. Is that the great "change" we can hope for from SF?

As for pretending you never heard the one about the dead voting SF?

Ok I accept that you know how MNCs will pack up and leave Ireland with an change of CT. How you know this might remain a mystery but I accept it.

You will have to explain how that is mé féin for me. The reason I said that was because, I did state it earlier. I think it's reasonable to assume MNCs will defend the tax rate just like pensioners defend the pension and parents defend child allowance. Is that fair? What great change are you talking about (it's very hard to keep up)? AND I also said it because the example you give to back up you theory that Adams is clueless on the economy came from none other than Sammy Wilson. That for me shows form. I would not expect Sammy Wilson to say anything other than that. Is that unreasonable?

I didn't pretend anything. Maybe you could tell me who said it? Actually don't bother as you'll probably just quote Evil Genius.

It is fair to say that the IRA were brought about as a reaction to 'anti-democratic legislation'.

You may think that a "fair" assertion to make, but I'm sure many others may not.

You might replace "fair to say" with "my opinion".

True. Many others do not. I change it to my opinion so.

[Zapatista]

My point is quite simple. Mr. Ferris, as a TD, is a would-be legislator. The Garda Siochána are the constitutional enforcers of the enactments of these legislators in our democracy. Yet Mr. Ferris pointedly, repeatedly and deliberately chooses to align himself with the murderers of a garda. He has gone so far as to say that if he had information about the murder of a garda, he would not divulge it to the authorities.

That is an untenable position for a legislator in a democracy and, as such, is undemocratic. No amount of examples you adduce of other instances of anti-democratic behaviour, from whatever quarter, will alter the fact of Mr. Ferris's undemocratic behaviour, so the whataboutery is no contribution to the debate.

In my opinion, that stance and SF's seeming support for it, coupled with the perception of the party as being "comfortable with anarchy", as someone here put it so well recently, is one reason why the party will not achieve more than marginal electoral support (i.e. a few seats) in this state in this generation. 

Is that clear enough? Whether it is or not, I can't make it any clearer, so it'll have to do. I'm not engaging in one of those interminable "yes but, no but" dialogues of the deaf where one side is capable of only one view and not interested in dialogue or debate but instead responds to each point with another "whatabout" - see Zapatista's treatise on anti-democratic forces.

Whataboutary??? I was having a debate with stephenite about Adams and McGuinness and you popped up with 'whatabout Martin Ferris'. Now you want to make your piece then and rule out 'wahtaboutary'.

[Maguire01]

I think it's reasonable to assume MNCs will defend the tax rate just like pensioners defend the pension and parents defend child allowance. Is that fair?

Not really. What can pensioners and parents do if they're not happy with their pensions or allowances? MNCs can just ship out.

[Zapatista]

I think it's reasonable to assume MNCs will defend the tax rate just like pensioners defend the pension and parents defend child allowance. Is that fair?

Not really. What can pensioners and parents do if they're not happy with their pensions or allowances? MNCs can just ship out.

Pensioners have already defended themselves quite well. My point is that they will defend themselves, the result is immaterial.

[Maguire01]

I think it's reasonable to assume MNCs will defend the tax rate just like pensioners defend the pension and parents defend child allowance. Is that fair?

Not really. What can pensioners and parents do if they're not happy with their pensions or allowances? MNCs can just ship out.

Pensioners have already defended themselves quite well. My point is that they will defend themselves, the result is immaterial.

It's totally material. If the pensioners don't get their way, it's tough shit; if the multi-nationals don't get their way, they can go somewhere else.

[Maguire01]

It's totally material. If the pensioners don't get their way, it's tough shit; if the multi-nationals don't get their way, they can go somewhere else.

Maybe you haven't been following the discussion?

My point was that you would expect them to defend it if it was under threat.

Yes, it is of course material in the real world but not in the context of my point.

I don't see the point in discussing anything other than the real world.

2 points now arise though. Firstly, pensioners are citizens of this state and have more rights in the running of this country than MNCs. Secondly, MNCs will abide by the law of the land and if they don't like it they can f**k off.

Which is precisely what they will do. (And will therefore make it more difficult for the state to pay pensions.)

[Evil Genius]

In mid-November blah blah
Sinn fein / IRA ... Blah blah

At that point we see the collapse of yet another pointless and idiotic post by this amadan!

This is a thread about Gerry Adams standing for election in Louth. I posted a link from barely a fortnight later pointing to the finding in Louth of the remains of someone who was "disappeared" by the self-same organisation of which Gerry Adams was a leader, sorry, denied ever being a member of.

I think even you can see the relevance and topicality, therefore I can only assume you are resorting to abusing me personally because you can think of no other way of "returning serve".

And quite honestly, such a tactic is so weak, unconvincing and frankly witless that you'd be better off just saying nothing and hoping my post would get lost.

Still, thanks for "bumping" it up.

Thankfully sectarian dinosaurs like yourself have almost all been put to pasture!

Care to quote some posts where I have been "sectarian"?

One, even?

[Maguire01]

I don't see the point in discussing anything other than the real world.

Then quit replying to points and having me waste my time.

Sorry - I didn't realise you were being forced to respond.

Which is precisely what they will do. (And will therefore make it more difficult for the state to pay pensions.)

Go back a post. I took from your post that MNCs have the power to blackmail the state while the pensioners don't and from that you think the MNCs should get their way. If that is your position then we disagree on that. There is a balance of course but we shouldn't accept your position automatically.

I hope this is precisely what they are doing and have been doing, although I doubt it.

It's not about blackmail. MNCs will make commercial decisions. They have no reason to be loyal to any state. It's the real world. It's up to the state to decide what the MNCs are worth - not just in terms of corporation tax, but the knock on effect on income tax, VAT, reduction in unemployment benefit etc etc... and of course getting that decision right should ultimately benefit pensioners too. It's not about pleasing the MNCs for the sake of it.

[lynchbhoy]

In mid-November blah blah
Sinn fein / IRA ... Blah blah

At that point we see the collapse of yet another pointless and idiotic post by this amadan!

This is a thread about Gerry Adams standing for election in Louth. I posted a link from barely a fortnight later pointing to the finding in Louth of the remains of someone who was "disappeared" by the self-same organisation of which Gerry Adams was a leader, sorry, denied ever being a member of.
I think even you can see the relevance and topicality, therefore I can only assume you are resorting to abusing me personally because you can think of no other way of "returning serve".
And quite honestly, such a tactic is so weak, unconvincing and frankly witless that you'd be better off just saying nothing and hoping my post would get lost.
Still, thanks for "bumping" it up.

Thankfully sectarian dinosaurs like yourself have almost all been put to pasture!

Care to quote some posts where I have been "sectarian"?
One, even?

completely irrlelevant tangent.
the whole sf/IRA craic - as someone else said - even the dup bigots have more or less stopped using that dumb phrase as a tactic to invoke sectarian response
you know what you are doing by dragging in these couple of irrelevant examles into a thread. tacit sectarian mindset and imo proof enough of a sectarian based mindet. Others wont agree, but they most likely havent the same experience with 'people' like yourself!

and stop whinging about personal abuse, its comment on your posts.
another 'old tactic' !!

[Evil Genius]

completely irrlelevant tangent.

You may consider the irony of Adams standing in the same constituency as that in which "the bodies are buried" to be irrelevant, but I don't.
Similarly, when/if the subject of brother Liam's alleged crimes get exhumed, you can be sure that that will be brought up too, though not because Gerry should have to answer for those any more than he should eg for his child-rapist father.
Rather, it will be pointed out to the voters of Louth that at the same time as Gerry was aware of the allegations against Liam, he (Gerry) was happy to campaign for Liam and promote his political ambitions in the self-same Louth constituency.
And then tried to deny it, until photographic proof was produced.
Still, if the voters of Louth are happy to have a serial liar as their representative, then "the Divil mend them", as the saying goes.

the whole sf/IRA craic - as someone else said - even the dup bigots have more or less stopped using that dumb phrase as a tactic to invoke sectarian response

"... a tactic to invoke sectarian response" is it? (I think you mean "provoke", btw).
That is just another way of claiming "It's not my fault, since someone else made me say it" (thereby once again damaging your own credibility as a debater, but no matter).
Anyhow, I firmly believe that there was and still is a clear link between SF and the Provos, a view shared by people of all creeds in Ireland, and none.
Therefore how is it "sectarian" of me to allude to it?
And if I were deemed "sectarian" on the back of this (hardly novel) thought, surely that sectarianism would come out in my other posts?
Yet when I challenged you to find even one such example from all of my posts on this Board, the best you can come up with is this tripe that "someone else" said that linking SF with IRA is "sectarian", therefore I must be, plus some bilge about the DUP (as if I have ever expressed anything but contempt for that shower). 

you know what you are doing by dragging in these couple of irrelevant examles into a thread. tacit sectarian mindset and imo proof enough of a sectarian based mindet. Others wont agree, but they most likely havent the same experience with 'people' like yourself!

Drivel, not debate.

and stop whinging about personal abuse, its comment on your posts.
another 'old tactic' !!

Not "whinging" at all, merely pointing out that when someone insists on "playing the man" repeatedly, it is a sure sign that he is incapable of "playing the ball".

[lynchbhoy]

completely irrlelevant tangent.

You may consider the irony of Adams standing in the same constituency as that in which "the bodies are buried" to be irrelevant,


another 'old tactic' !!

Not "whinging" at all, merely pointing out that when someone insists on "playing the man" repeatedly, it is a sure sign that he is incapable of "playing the ball".
[/quote]
bla blah blahdy blah
irrelevant
more irrelevency etc etc

rather ironic you talking about playing the man after posting all your irrelevancies in this and most other of your offerings !!

keep it up - no doubt you will !

[armagho9]

Still, if the voters of Louth are happy to have a serial liar as their representative, then "the Divil mend them", as the saying goes.

i thought these were basic requirements to be a successful politician in the 26 counties.  He should fit in just fine