Gerry's moving south...

[Donnellys Hollow]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

[lynchbhoy]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

I'd say a number would see it this way.
Also there would be a lot more would simply see who was best candidate for their locale.
Its not as if the other parties dont have some very dogy politicians (corrupt or recession causing - and not just ff either!!) in the Dail meaning they are able to pontificate !!

to me people would be more inclined to vote for sf if they had a better more economically sharp leader.
the same reason why i'd be put off voting for fg with inda as leader !

[lynchbhoy]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

if it doesnt put off the electorate in his own constituency then I doubt if it will perturb too many more off their own local candidates or even the party - IF they got a better leader in.
without one, they will remain the same as before - though will get a lot more 'protest votes' imo.
good to see evil myles has come up with some good old whataboutery !

[Evil Genius]

good to see evil myles has come up with some good old whataboutery !

Oh dear. Thirteen words and two glaring errors.

First, I am not Myles na G and never have been. Indeed, I had thought that that particular canard had been finally laid to rest years ago, but not by you, apparently.

And then there's "whataboutery". It is universally accepted that this term is used when someone is accused of something and in response, seeks to avoid blame and culpability by pointing to the error of another i.e. "Whatabout him? He did even worse" etc.

When I made my point, it was not in response to any claim made against me, so it cannot be characterised as "whataboutery".

Rather, I was merely linking an ultra topical news report ("Remains turn up in Louth of man murdered by IRA") with the recent news that the leader of SF intends to stand for election in Louth.

Of course I might have made the link between the IRA and SF more explicit. 

But I'll know better next time, otherwise those gullible or self-deluded individuals* who believe Adams assertions that he was never in the IRA might continue to miss the point:


* - Of course, there are other individuals who know the truth but will simply never admit it. These are known as "lying b a s t a r d s".

[Banana Man]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

Dissidents receiving about 1% is marginal, the Shinners on about 11% going by recent polls, highlighted by Pearse Doherty romping home in Donegal ain't marginal.

Also while not for one minute condoning the actions of the 2 men highlighted in the van with Ferris it annoys me this 'holier than thou' attitude by the boys in the south.

You's are quick to forget the wrongs done in the name of 26 county Independence. You'd think a bullet was never fired in anger done there that led to the formation of the free state and FG and FF yet you constantly pore scorn on SF for trying to do what those parties done and move away from violence.

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

[Zapatista]

When discussing Adams' electoral prospects in Louth, I don't think we should overlook the Shinners' formidable vote-maximising record where, in NI at least, they are said even to be able to get the dead out to vote.

EG, who say this?

[lynchbhoy]

good to see evil myles has come up with some good old whataboutery !

Oh dear. Thirteen words and two glaring errors.

nope you bring in an unrelated tangent ...'what about'....

though the 'dissappeared' will no doubt put off a number of voters also I doubt if too many think along the same lines as yourself thankfully !

sf have bigger issues to deal with imo than some perceptions in the south by some southern voters regarding IRA activities from yesteryear!
most have moved on or are moving on. you dont even 'get' the mindset of most voters in the north of Ireland evil myles....you admit so yourself because of living in England/abroad/wherever ..
you 'get' even less regarding the mindset of southern voters !
but ignorance hasn't stopped your baseless pontification in the past now has it !!

another couple of lengthy posts from you with no substence yet again !

[Hardy]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

Dissidents receiving about 1% is marginal, the Shinners on about 11% going by recent polls, highlighted by Pearse Doherty romping home in Donegal ain't marginal.

Also while not for one minute condoning the actions of the 2 men highlighted in the van with Ferris it annoys me this 'holier than thou' attitude by the boys in the south.

You's are quick to forget the wrongs done in the name of 26 county Independence. You'd think a bullet was never fired in anger done there that led to the formation of the free state and FG and FF yet you constantly pore scorn on SF for trying to do what those parties done and move away from violence.

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

Just who is being "holier than thou" here. You feel free to tell us what "sickens" you, while dismissing the beliefs of those who are sickened by the anti-democratic antics of a would-be legislator. You accuse people you know nothing about of hypocrisy and pronounce upon what they "forget" as if you're some sort of mind-reader. And they are the ones who are "holier than thou"? Get a grip

[johnneycool]

anti-democratic antics of a would-be legislator

who would that be?

[Hardy]

My point is quite simple. Mr. Ferris, as a TD, is a would-be legislator. The Garda Siochána are the constitutional enforcers of the enactments of these legislators in our democracy. Yet Mr. Ferris pointedly, repeatedly and deliberately chooses to align himself with the murderers of a garda. He has gone so far as to say that if he had information about the murder of a garda, he would not divulge it to the authorities.

That is an untenable position for a legislator in a democracy and, as such, is undemocratic. No amount of examples you adduce of other instances of anti-democratic behaviour, from whatever quarter, will alter the fact of Mr. Ferris's undemocratic behaviour, so the whataboutery is no contribution to the debate.

In my opinion, that stance and SF's seeming support for it, coupled with the perception of the party as being "comfortable with anarchy", as someone here put it so well recently, is one reason why the party will not achieve more than marginal electoral support (i.e. a few seats) in this state in this generation. 

Is that clear enough? Whether it is or not, I can't make it any clearer, so it'll have to do. I'm not engaging in one of those interminable "yes but, no but" dialogues of the deaf where one side is capable of only one view and not interested in dialogue or debate but instead responds to each point with another "whatabout" - see Zapatista's treatise on anti-democratic forces.

[Banana Man]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

Dissidents receiving about 1% is marginal, the Shinners on about 11% going by recent polls, highlighted by Pearse Doherty romping home in Donegal ain't marginal.

Also while not for one minute condoning the actions of the 2 men highlighted in the van with Ferris it annoys me this 'holier than thou' attitude by the boys in the south.

You's are quick to forget the wrongs done in the name of 26 county Independence. You'd think a bullet was never fired in anger done there that led to the formation of the free state and FG and FF yet you constantly pore scorn on SF for trying to do what those parties done and move away from violence.

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

Just who is being "holier than thou" here. You feel free to tell us what "sickens" you, while dismissing the beliefs of those who are sickened by the anti-democratic antics of a would-be legislator. You accuse people you know nothing about of hypocrisy and pronounce upon what they "forget" as if you're some sort of mind-reader. And they are the ones who are "holier than thou"? Get a grip

Get a grip of what exactly? you need to get a grip of history and realise no former colony that now enjoys independence did not experience hardship, war and terrible deeds done in the name of this independence.

Yes I stand over my point, you think everyone woke up in the south one morning and the Brits decided to walk away all amicably forgetting the bloodshed it took to remove them. You have annual commemorations to the '1916 men of violence' formally endorsed by said state yet when the northern clan members decide to defend themselves they are butchers and murderers and how dare they etc, that's the hypocrisy - you might not like it but you can't run away from it now get to grips with that

You have still chose to ignore the original point of how SF's vote equates to marginal, as i said previously, I can't wait for that one

[Hardy]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

Dissidents receiving about 1% is marginal, the Shinners on about 11% going by recent polls, highlighted by Pearse Doherty romping home in Donegal ain't marginal.

Also while not for one minute condoning the actions of the 2 men highlighted in the van with Ferris it annoys me this 'holier than thou' attitude by the boys in the south.

You's are quick to forget the wrongs done in the name of 26 county Independence. You'd think a bullet was never fired in anger done there that led to the formation of the free state and FG and FF yet you constantly pore scorn on SF for trying to do what those parties done and move away from violence.

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

Just who is being "holier than thou" here. You feel free to tell us what "sickens" you, while dismissing the beliefs of those who are sickened by the anti-democratic antics of a would-be legislator. You accuse people you know nothing about of hypocrisy and pronounce upon what they "forget" as if you're some sort of mind-reader. And they are the ones who are "holier than thou"? Get a grip

Get a grip of what exactly? you need to get a grip of history and realise no former colony that now enjoys independence did not experience hardship, war and terrible deeds done in the name of this independence.

Yes I stand over my point, you think everyone woke up in the south one morning and the Brits decided to walk away all amicably forgetting the bloodshed it took to remove them. You have annual commemorations to the '1916 men of violence' formally endorsed by said state yet when the northern clan members decide to defend themselves they are butchers and murderers and how dare they etc, that's the hypocrisy - you might not like it but you can't run away from it now get to grips with that

You have still chose to ignore the original point of how SF's vote equates to marginal, as i said previously, I can't wait for that one

I've dealt with all of the above and I have no apology to make for pointing out to you my opinion of one of the reasons (among others) why the majority of this generation don't vote for SF and why many see their move away from violence (your phrase), however welcome, as compromised by the antics of the likes of Ferris. That's just a fact - I can't change it for you and it's not up to me but up to SF to work on changing that perception.

So don't be volleying off your armalite at this messenger. Where were you when I was talking about why people shouldn't (not just wouldn't) vote for FF?

[Banana Man]

Of course. That has nothing to do with the fact that the antics represented in the picture are one reason SF will not achieve more than marginal electoral support in this jurisdiction in this generation.

Right, explain the above statement, I can't wait, this should be good

Eh? Do you not think that a TD acting as a taxi service for Jerry McCabe's killers upon their release from prison would put a lot of people off voting for that TD's party?

Dissidents receiving about 1% is marginal, the Shinners on about 11% going by recent polls, highlighted by Pearse Doherty romping home in Donegal ain't marginal.

Also while not for one minute condoning the actions of the 2 men highlighted in the van with Ferris it annoys me this 'holier than thou' attitude by the boys in the south.

You's are quick to forget the wrongs done in the name of 26 county Independence. You'd think a bullet was never fired in anger done there that led to the formation of the free state and FG and FF yet you constantly pore scorn on SF for trying to do what those parties done and move away from violence.

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

Just who is being "holier than thou" here. You feel free to tell us what "sickens" you, while dismissing the beliefs of those who are sickened by the anti-democratic antics of a would-be legislator. You accuse people you know nothing about of hypocrisy and pronounce upon what they "forget" as if you're some sort of mind-reader. And they are the ones who are "holier than thou"? Get a grip

Get a grip of what exactly? you need to get a grip of history and realise no former colony that now enjoys independence did not experience hardship, war and terrible deeds done in the name of this independence.

Yes I stand over my point, you think everyone woke up in the south one morning and the Brits decided to walk away all amicably forgetting the bloodshed it took to remove them. You have annual commemorations to the '1916 men of violence' formally endorsed by said state yet when the northern clan members decide to defend themselves they are butchers and murderers and how dare they etc, that's the hypocrisy - you might not like it but you can't run away from it now get to grips with that

You have still chose to ignore the original point of how SF's vote equates to marginal, as i said previously, I can't wait for that one

I've dealt with all of the above and I have no apology to make for pointing out to you my opinion of one of the reasons (among others) why the majority of this generation don't vote for SF and why many see their move away from violence (your phrase), however welcome, as compromised by the antics of the likes of Ferris. That's just a fact - I can't change it for you and it's not up to me but up to SF to work on changing that perception.

So don't be volleying off your armalite at this messenger. Where were you when I was talking about why people shouldn't (not just wouldn't) vote for FF?

volleying of my armalite eh, cute. Your forgetting all the parties in your free state derive from SF and violence against the British. Another point you continue to ignore. But then as long as your alright Jack, root the north eh.

I agree with people not voting for FF so why would I disagree, your failing to grasp the point Hardy. By your rationale if you said the sky was blue you would want me to argue otherwise. I can't argue against something I agree with.

You haven't dealt with the point though, you said SF's vote was marginal, you further clarified this comment when pushed, that you meant a few TD's. A few TD's would equate to 3. They have 5 TD's with a General election looming showing them to have 10 to 11% of public opinion i.e. one in 10 people, therefore above a 'few' and cannot be considered marginal whether you like that concept or not it's the truth.

[Hardy]

Sorry - I haven't really time for this and I can't afford for this to go on for days.

This is all I'm going to say - you can (and no doubt will) have the last word.

I haven't forgotten or ignored or failed to deal with anything. I'm simply giving you my opinion. You, on the pother hand seem determined to insult me, or the people of this state - I'm not sure which. I have no respect for a contribution that takes a point I make and parlays it into a gratuitous insult - "I'm alright, Jack", "root the north". You can shove that shite, with my compliments.

I have no idea when the definition of "a few" became "three". Once again, for clarity, it is my opinion that SF will not gain more than marginal support in the election or immediate future elections, for the reasons I stated, among others. Unfortunately, that is still only my opinion and, unlike yours, it seems, does not have the automatic status of truth.

Enjoy your last word.

[Evil Genius]

good to see evil myles has come up with some good old whataboutery !

Oh dear. Thirteen words and two glaring errors.

nope you bring in an unrelated tangent ...'what about'....

An "unrelated tangent", eh?

In mid-November, the leader of SF/IRA announces he is going to stand for election in Louth. A couple of weeks later, the body of a man murdered by IRA/SF turns up in Louth. And you take exception to my linking the two? 

You don't appear to have much concern for your credibility as a poster, do you? 

though the 'dissappeared' will no doubt put off a number of voters also I doubt if too many think along the same lines as yourself thankfully !

If the voters of the Irish Republic decide to replace thieves with thugs as their political representatives, that is up to them - they'll get what the people eg of West Belfast have received over the last 25-odd years. Which would be all they would deserve, imo.

sf have bigger issues to deal with imo than some perceptions in the south by some southern voters regarding IRA activities from yesteryear!
most have moved on or are moving on

And these "bigger issues" would include the likes of this, would they?
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/19622
As for "moving on", SF/IRA expect us to do so when it comes to some killings in "the North" from 30-odd years ago (eg the "Disappeared"), but continue to agitate when it comes to certain other killings in NI from 30-odd years ago (eg "The Ballymurphy Massacre").

you dont even 'get' the mindset of most voters in the north of Ireland evil myles....you admit so yourself because of living in England/abroad/wherever ..
you 'get' even less regarding the mindset of southern voters !
but ignorance hasn't stopped your baseless pontification in the past now has it !!

Drivel.

another couple of lengthy posts from you with no substence yet again !

"lengthy" is it?
My post #186 was 3 lines, a brief link and a photo. And my post #191  was 9 lines and a photo.

If you can't even get factual criticisms right, what does that say for your critisms which are based on opinion?