Tyone Responds To GPA Regonition

[muppet]

 Anyone able to give more info on this Donal O'Neill character?

I suspect that given the Gaa's tardiness in tackling the whole GPA/Player welfare issue, the subequent vacuum will be full of all sorts of speculators. The Gaa need to tie up all loose ends in this area and the only way that can be done is to corner the GPA in a binding deal. That will close any gap between players and the Association and leave no room for agent wannabees.

I can appreciate the idealogy of traditionalists but I think a dose of realism is needed before this mushrooms out of control.

[realredhandfan]

spotted a gap in the market more like

[Hardy]

So the GPA was the brainchild of a "sports marketing consultant". How surprising. In the world of professional sport that these types have irredeemably corrupted, "sports marketing consultants" are more accurately known as "spivs".

Some of Dessie's inanities and self-contradictions would be amusing if they weren't so infuriating.

E.g., "after taking up my position with the GPA, I realised that a 'pay-for-play' agenda wasn't on", followed by  "then, we commissioned an actuary's report, to determine how much players were out of pocket ... the net result was a demand for €127 a week to compensate players".

Dessie, explain the difference between "pay-for-play" and "a demand for €127 a week to compensate players".  We still continually get the ritual "we don't want pay for play", yet practically every GPA statement refers to the amount of money generated in the GAA while players get nothing, demands for some of the money made from renting Croke Park, etc. etc.  Eventually it becomes clear that the "pay for play" phrase is just a device to throw you off. I think it translates as "we want some of the GAA's money for elite players, but we'll never agree to call it "pay for play". Oh right. So it's pay for being a (county) player. That's different, then.

[magpie seanie]

It would be easy for all of us who are heavily involved to do a survey estimating how much money we'd be out over the years if we weren't involved in the GAA. It's total bullshit though because we CHOOSE to do it and enjoy it. If we didn't then we wouldn't. Same with county players. When you see things like "highlight the plight of county players" it really annoys me. You'd swear they were living in Darfur or something. Plight. Indeed.

And the GAA is dealing with the GPA. They have a rep on Central Council - what more do they deserve. That's a huge thing to have. I'd love it if my club could have one as well.

[realredhandfan]

What wages are involved here particularly O neills

[muppet]

 Thanks for the informative posts TYP.

Seanie and Hardy while I respect your positions I dont think ignoring the GPA is going to make the problem go away. The more they are ignored the more powerful they seem to get. If Sean Cavanagh can state only that one Tyrone panalelist in his time as a senior player wasn't a GPA member then it seems fairly unanimous, at least in Tyrone.

Taking a hard line is going to end in tears. Better for the Gaa to cut a deal while they can still dictate the terms.

[Hardy]

Muppet - likewise, I respect your opinions, as well as Uladh's, etc. - they're obviously sincerely held and rationally argued (... group hug, anybody  ).

But I really don't see what we have to fear from the GPA or whether or not they go away. I think we will lose a lot more by kow-towing to them and conceding precedents to them than we will by ignoring them. As I said earlier, the GPA's only sanction  is to withraw their services to county teams (their 'labour', they'd probably call it). What happens when we say "OK. What's your next trick"?

[muppet]

 ( Where did my post go? Second one today, obviously you read it Hardy as you replied to it but I can't find it. )

As I said earlier, the GPA's only sanction is to withraw their services to county teams (their 'labour', they'd probably call it). What happens when we say "OK. What's your next trick"?

Having been through a couple of strikes they are not to be taken lightly. They are incredibly divisive and open wounds that often never heal. Add in the passion and emotion that go with all things Gaa and player strike could be clamitous for the Association. It should be seen by all as the doomsday scenario. There is no shame in talking to opponents so they should get talking. The solution might be easier than each side thinks.

[Wispa]

Lads, I could get the head taken off me here but nonetheless - I don't see any problem with county players getting a small sum for the effort they put into the game. I know a friend of mine who plays for a "small" county. He rarely goes out and lives in the gymn. He might take a drink 5 or 6 times a year. He will probably never win a major title. While I understand many of your views with regard to the effort other ordinary members of the gaa put in, bare in mind that on any given night that person can go out and enjoy themselves and turn up at their trainin/coaching session the next day nursing a "small" hangover (i.e. it'll be alright so long as they can physically take the session which should of course be a given). Can the intercounty player do that? These guys have no lives. I know the rewards can be great but what if your playin for a weaker county? In some cases its not that eeasy either to walk away and say "I want a life" because there is alot of pressure on players of a certain ability to play and represent their county. I acknowledge though that there can be pressure on underage mentops too to stay coaching in a club because no one's willing to take over. My point is, if every manager at intercounty level, and 90% of club managers are gettin large sums for their troubles, then why begrudge the guys that are doing the most to promote these games and generate this money a tiny fraction of it? €127 a week doesn't have to evolve into "pay for play". There should still be lots of money left to feed into the grass-roots.

[theskull1]

You really dont fit in here do you? That is the most naive thing I've read here.

It will set a legal precedent of players getting financially rewarded for representing their couinty and leave the door open for them to the gain even more in the future.  The fact that the GAA mightn't be paying for it is irrelevant.

The notion of legal precendent suggests the situation would be irreversible and as you stated could only lead to more money . That is absolute bullshit. If you left out 'legal precendent' you would have been left with: It will ..( see? )..players getting financially rewarded for representing their couinty and leave the door open for them to the gain even more in the future.  The fact that the GAA mightn't be paying for it is irrelevant. That could be taken as given by any credit system and would have been a completely pointless post.

I am not going to argue the toss with an oversensitive hypocritical fool. Have some balls and take it onto the public board.

I'd like the board opinion on one of the comments I made on an earlier post which muppet has taken great exception to.

It will set a legal precedent of players getting financially rewarded for representing their couinty and leave the door open for them to the gain even more in the future.  The fact that the GAA mightn't be paying for it is irrelevant.

As you can see above myself and muppet have got into a spat over my use of the words legal precedent in one of my replys earlier in this thread. After attempting to explain why I used those specific words, muppet, instead of moving with the discussion decided to hurl a bit personal abuse. Itook exception to this and we've been going at ever since on the PM's. Muppet has suggested that I have some balls and take this back onto the board, so here I am. I've risen to his bait.


As I stated in an earlier post on this thread, my use of the word legal was in reference to the GAA and there current position on payment for playing. They currently do not allow payment to players even though illegal payments are taking place outside of their control. I explained that I did not intend for the word legal to be a reference to some sort of judicial process. I tried to communicate that to muppet but he has stuck to his guns  and defined the two words as a term i.e Legal Precedent - A judicial decision that may be used as a standard in subsequent similar cases. We haven't got much further than him trying to win this what I believe to be, very specific yet meaningless point whilst he believes that I am the one making meaningless points.
I'm saying that he is being pedeantic in the extreme and has totally ignored the important point I was trying to make which is that the GAA has never allowed payments to players before before and to allow this financial reward to players under a tax break system is effectively the GAA giving into the "pay for play".

I'd like some opinions please....

[magpie seanie]

€127 a week doesn't have to evolve into "pay for play".

FFS you couldn't make it up. A great first post.

[realredhandfan]

wispa - your point is  that those from the weaker counties should be paid for being weak.  ffs thats not near elitist enough.  if I play for Kilkenny footballers and get 127 euro per week playing 5 games a year.  How the hell is that fair for Ciaran Mc Geeny one of armaghs finest playing 12 games per year.  

[realredhandfan]

Actuallly a new point-  if counties play 10 games per annum in national league and championship then that 127 per week amounts to over 600 euro per game.  If thats not great news for all involved then sure what is.  Also it would pay to be less successful as the mless game ye play the more your income per game percentage increase.  In other words the less you contribute to the GAA the more you'll earn.  Its so cunning a plan you could almost call it anti GAA.

[muppet]

 The €127 is being suggested as a tax credit. It is money they will have earned themselves but will pay less tax on. Our generous government give tax credits to people from Landlords to the needy JP McManus why not far more worthy receipients like our County players?

( ps if anyone bothered to read Skulls post he has tried to harass me for days with a barrage of PM's complaining over my asking was his Skull numb. He has demanded an apology. Given the gravity of the situation we need a respected moderator urgently before this develops into societal breakdown, any volunteers ( tax credits offered )? )

[Wispa]

How many games they play is irrelevant. The idea behind the theory is that a footballer in Wicklow makes as many sacrifices as one in Armagh. While this may not have been the case 10 years ago it is rapidly becoming so. They train from October/November onwards till Mid-June at the earliest before they are knocked out of all intercounty competition. Take into account that increasingly they are asked to maintain weight programmes throughout the year and it is quite clear intercounty football is almost a 12 month commitment. Dessie Farrell's desire to reward all players equally eradicates the elitism criticised so readily by many posts here. The efforts made by all players up until after the first round of the c'ship will not vary to that great a deal, thus justifying equal standing for all. I think most players who go on to play for the most successful teams later on in the c'ship would acknowledge that these games bring their own rewards as regards titles, national recognition, personal recognition, etc.  And the point I was trynig to make Magpie was that a small amount of money towards the players does not necessarily mean the floodgates will open and professionalism will arrive and destroy our game.