All Ireland Quarter Final Kerry V Down

[AZOffaly]

Very well done Down. I was below in Cahirciveen watching the game with the outlaws, and the consensus was that a) Down have a tidy team, especially in the forwards, and b) that Kerry are gone for a while.

I'm not sure about b), but I do think that they are certainly going to be in a retooling phase for a couple of years. Now is Cork's moment to take control down south. As for a) though, I think that's a certainty. I'm not sure if ye are cynical or cute enough, but ye certainly have the forwards, and ye dominated around the middle for probably 50 of the 70 minutes at least.

Great to see the red and black back winning matches in Croker, and now I hope the Offaly bucks are looking at that and thinking to themselves that they should be able to compete as well on any given day.

[mournerambler]

Then they should be refused admission. I am not anti-alcohol,  but i do believe there is a time and place for it, and a sports stadium is not the place, particularly one frequented by families and young children.  We have a serious problem with alcohol in society generally and all sports bodies should doing what little they can to eradicate it. You claim to have a right too have a Pint in Croker, i would contest that. Do i have a right too have a Smoke in Croker, of course not, nor should i.

I hope you wern't sitting up to the wee small hours & secretly consuming the devil's buttermilk 

[snoopdog]

i havent stopped smiling since 3.30 sat. I admit to leaving after the down gme to go out for a couple of pints to calm the nerves actually watched first half of Dubs Tyr out on upper hogan on tv. Never done that before. One thing i couldnt understand though was amount of people in Tyrone and Dub jerseys watching the tv also. They paid 35 euros in to croker to have a pint and watch the match.
I did go in for second half though.
Was a sound man from Kerry behind us and he was very gracious in defeat wishing us all the best, as the majortiy of GAA fans do.
Alcohol should be sold in Croker. I go to a lot of premiership and champions league games and everyone is searched going in to games would hate to see this happen at croke. Surely someone who is locked should not be allowed in. Always a small minority of foul mouthed scumbags who were dragged up that ruin it for the majority, and they are not just tyrone fans either we all have them unfortunately. Stewards in croker are useless.

[snoopdog]

on the game Down were fantastic. all over the pitch. didnt expect it or see it coming. Well done lads. Pity we have to wait a month for the semi.
I suppose i will have my feet back on the ground by then.
As for Kerry you have been great champions and all gracious in defeat apart from maybe Jack O Connor. Im sure you will be back next year.

[bennydorano]

Congrats to Down.  Been away on hols and didn't get a look in here, just read a few pages - Inidana, you really do know nothing about football. unfortunately it'll probably not stop you pontificating on the ills of every county in the land.

Was Colgan dropped or injured?

[All of a Sludden]

Do any off you lads defending the sale and abuse of alcohol in Croker or any other stadium, ever engage your Brains, before you start tapping on your Key-Boards. Some off the responses here defy reason. Ignoring Wobblers abusive jibe about being narrow minded, if he thinks his view represents the majority of GAA supporters, he is self deluded. As for Stewards being responsible for maintaining order, with a drunken element that is a recipe for a riot, not even an immature child would suggest such a remedy. The simple fact is that alcohol has no place in GAA grounds, before or during Games. If a persons need for Alcohol is so great that he cannot abstain for a couple of Hours, then he should go to a Pub and watch the game on TV, not inflict himself on the real GAA majority who attend for the Football

I am not much of a drinker, I had 2 pints after the Down v Kerry game. The bar area at the back of the Cusack was busy, some great banter and I bumped into a lad I havent seen for nearly 20 years. We had great craic catching up, I found out a biit of news on people I hadnt seen in donkeys years and we shook hands promising to keep in touch. I missed the start of the Dublin game, had another pint at half time and ended up in the handball club at the back of the hill for a few celebratory pints afterwards. I and no one in my company caused any problems, we were good humoured, we sang, we enjoyed our day and we got home safely and in time for the 9 o`clock news on RTE. The only idiot we encountered was a Tyrone supporter with a bodhran who was moved by the stewards, I dont know wether drink was a factor or not.
Drink is not a problem for the vast majority at our games. Their problems should not mean the end to a good day out for the rest of us. I can take or leave my few pints and had I been driving at the weekend I wouldnt have missed the few pints.

[All of a Sludden]

I really cant believe that a thread about Down's biggest achievement in nearly 20 years has turned into a discussion about some drunken tool from Tyrone

Enough about Mickey Harte, well done Down and the Dubs.

[John Martin]

Congrats to Down.  Been away on hols and didn't get a look in here, just read a few pages - Inidana, you really do know nothing about football. unfortunately it'll probably not stop you pontificating on the ills of every county in the land.

Was Colgan dropped or injured?

He was substituted after a bad start in Tullamore and has not started since.

[mournerambler]

Congrats to Down.  Been away on hols and didn't get a look in here, just read a few pages - Inidana, you really do know nothing about football. unfortunately it'll probably not stop you pontificating on the ills of every county in the land.

Was Colgan dropped or injured?

He was substituted after a bad start in Tullamore and has not started since.

According to that great GAA newspaper that is 'Sunday Life' he played at number 6 & I quote, "simply outstanding, making countless interceptions & was the launch pad for many of his team's attacks"
Jasus you would think they could have at least read the program to see that it was indeed Kevin McKernan at CHB, who for me was MOTM.

[downredblack]

Did any of yous say to yourselves when Ambrose landed the 45 , "Jaysus anything could happen here today "

[Abble]

Did any of yous say to yourselves when Ambrose landed the 45 , "Jaysus anything could happen here today "

some massive points taken by down and that was the first of them alright, you dont see many like that with a wet ball...kerry werent enjoying the conditions as much as down and it was from there i was starting to think the same myself

[goldenyears]

Indo on Saturday morning - POR calls it!!!

Paddy O'Rourke picks up the chorus and tosses it into the garbage. "You have to live in the real world," he counsels. People have been talking about history this week as if it's about to prove some kind of magical firewall for Down footballers. Imagine, they have never lost a senior championship game to Kerry. It's like identifying a breed of hare that's never fallen foul of a fox.

Except, Paddy doesn't buy it.

The story here, he reckons, isn't one of history so much as distance. Paddy fancies Down to blow the football championship wide open in Croke Park today, but not because the experience of old men like Kevin Mussen, Sean O'Neill, Paddy Doherty or the McCartans was a uniformly happy one against the Kingdom.

And certainly not because the side he himself led to the Sam Maguire in '91 managed to uphold the county's 100pc record against Kerry with a semi-final victory.

Paddy believes that Down can make it five championship wins out of five against Gaelic football's Rockefellers because, as he puts it, "I've no doubt that now is the time to get them. If Kerry are going to be caught, it'll be this weekend."

There has maybe been a tendency this week to take the mascara and eye pencil to this business of Kerry and Down.

UNIQUE

It's been tarted up into something it quite palpably isn't. Yet, through the prism of history, it holds unique status in Gaelic football.

So why pass the opportunity of a drum roll?

For the only other counties with unblemished championship figures against Kerry are the small handful that have never played them.

You could, too, draw parallel lines between the discomfort that great Down team of the 60s visited upon Kerry with the wretched itch Tyrone now seem to inflict upon Jack O'Connor's boys. Something deep within the Kerry DNA has Ulster football parcelled as some kind of unscrupulously modified product.

Mick O'Dwyer went to print with an unambiguous view that the Down team that won three All-Irelands in the 60s, beating Kerry in two finals, "could be quite cynical when it came to fouling, especially outside the scoring range".

O'Dwyer stresses in his autobiography, 'Blessed and Obsessed', that he is "not accusing Down of being ruthless hit-men who thumped their way to glory". He does argue, however, that "they brought a cynical edge to their play which was difficult to counteract".

Kerry's distaste for that edge was easily soothed by the natural feel-good factor of Down becoming the first team to bring Sam Maguire north of the border in 1960. Yet, they believed they had been "bullied" out of that game too, and, by the time red and black ribbons were dangling from Sam for a third time in '68, Kerry had become thoroughly sick of the sight of those colours.

Actually, there is a thread running through O'Dwyer's reflections on that period that seems to chart a similar course to O'Connor's observations on Tyrone in his book, 'Keys to the Kingdom'.

"There's an arrogance to northern football which rubs Kerry people up the wrong way," wrote O'Connor. "They're flash and nouveau riche and full of it. Add up the number of All-Ireland titles the Ulster counties have won and it's less than a third of Kerry's total.

"But northern teams advertise themselves well. They talk about how they did it, they go on and on about this theory and that practice as if they'd just split the atom."

No question, the perfect All-Ireland for Kerry this year would be to beat Tyrone in the September final. Conversely, the nightmare scenario would to be to lose again to Mickey Harte and his "full of it" team. Yet, today offers a kind of alternative Armageddon too.

Imagine getting side-swiped in July by an Ulster county not even touted as contenders?

O'Rourke, previously manager of his native county and now in charge of Armagh, is unequivocal in his belief that today's is a truly treacherous assignment for the All-Ireland champions.

It's not the maths of history, he argues, that Kerry have to fear. It's the gusting energy of a new and vibrant team.

"I don't think you let your mind go there," he says of Down's unique record against the Kingdom. "I don't think that you can afford to. You only look at what you're playing against. And it's always a case of whoever has the best panel of players will win these games.

coincidence

"I think it's just more of a coincidence that Kerry have never beaten Down in the championship. In '91, we had the best panel of players, but there was a lot of other years that, if we had met them in the championship, the score would have been reversed.

"Tradition is one thing. It obviously gives a team some sort of belief going into these games. But will the Down players be fixating on it now?

"Absolutely not. In fact, it's the thing you keep furthest away from because it doesn't have any bearing on it whatsoever. That's really only talk for the supporters and the press. You can only focus on what is relevant at the time and that's who you're playing against, who's picking up who, and who's going to be able to win the individual battles."

O'Rourke sees Kerry today as a significantly compromised force.

"I actually have a feeling that Kerry won't be in this year's All-Ireland final," he says. "I think they've lost a lot of players and this weekend could be very difficult for them because they've got another two major, major players missing for other reasons.

"No matter what team it is, very few can handle that amount of setbacks. While Kerry have a lot of talented players, they are greatly weakened from the team that played in last year's All-Ireland final."

Certainly, that absence through suspension of Tomas O Se and Paul Galvin gives this fixture a sheen of opportunity for Down. With the likes of Diarmuid Murphy, Darragh O Se, Tadhg Kennelly and Tommy Walsh already pared from last year's All-Ireland-winning team, O'Connor is compelled to shuffle the deck like a man running low on funds.

Yet John Evans, the Kerry football evangelist currently in charge of Tipperary, suspects that people are underestimating the calibre of champion going to war here. He certainly dismisses any suggestions of complacency.

"There's no danger of that, none whatsoever," argues Evans. "I say that for one reason and one reason only. This team is too experienced to do presumption. It is too experienced to do complacency. They're a self-motivating bunch of lads. I just don't see it happening. I don't see it as an issue.

"My view is that Kerry will be in the semi-finals, but I expect Down to give them a right good game. I say that on the basis of the pace and enthusiasm of this young Down team. And they know that Kerry will play football with them.

"But, with all due respects to Down, I think they're still in the development stage. We (Tipperary) have met them a couple of times and James McCartan is doing a wonderful, wonderful job.

"But they're in transition. They're young and they're physically not as strong as Kerry.

"In saying that, I do think they're going to give Kerry a very good game, particularly in the first 40 minutes. And, if things go right for them, who knows? Because the last thing that Kerry need is a fast-moving, vibrant team. And Down are that."

Evans' Tipperary were well beaten by Kerry in the Munster championship when, despite Tipp getting an early run on them, the Kingdom eased through without the merest flicker of panic.

He is also in agreement with O'Rourke that to focus on history here is, essentially, to buy into false profit.

"It is a unique record," he agrees of Down's unbeaten championship status against the Kingdom. "But, look, I don't see too much of an angle from that side. What I see is that Kerry are resilient and I don't think the Down backs are experienced enough for the Kerry forwards.

"Now, at the same time, I think the Down forwards will give the Kerry backs plenty to do. But from the point of view of physicality and experience, they're still in development."

Coming from Division 2 and having been evicted at an early stage from the Ulster championship, it is easy to see why Down's ability to cope with the whitest heat might now be questioned. Under both O'Rourke and his successor, Ross Carr, they struggled to marry pragmatic, hard-nosed defence to often swashbuckling attack.

Yet, O'Rourke believes that James McCartan may be close to striking that balance now.

"They've an awful lot of talent, a lot of very good footballers, players that would get on any side," he says of this Down team. There's a huge amount of energy about them and they have very good forwards. They've been putting up big, big scores from their first game in the National League.

"And they've continued to do that as they showed again last Saturday (against Sligo). The question always is, 'can they keep the door closed at the other end?' I think they have shown over the last six months that they've got a lot better at doing that. They're reasonably solid at the back now.

"There's been big changes, the whole half-back line is different. I think the changes have helped them and they aren't that far away now. They're going to be very hard to beat.

"I certainly don't see this game as anywhere near as predictable as some people seem to think."

And Down as serious contenders for Sam if they evict the Kingdom?

"Absolutely," says O'Rourke. "Beat Kerry and anything can happen. Anything!"

- Vincent Hogan

Irish Independent

[A Quinn Martin Production]

Indiana
Cosmo Kramer
bcarrier
blanketattack
Shawshank
Allofasludden
rrhf
hardstation
Frank Casey
Will Hunting
Deacon Blue

I don't like to gloat....but I'm afraid I have to this time...whats it like to see a team that you have ridiculed beat the best team in Ireland by a mile

The Aristocrats are back....

I'm feeling all left our 5Sams!!  I'm giving up predicting matches.

Brilliant performance by Down, completely outplayed Kerry who didn't realise unitl 15 mins were gone that they weren't going to win this game by simply turning up.  Poor attitude from Kerry all round summed up by a cynical nasty performance from the so called "Star" capped by the worst dive you'll see for the penalty and the bile that came from the mouth of Jack O'Connor

[5 Sams]

Humble apologies Quinn Martin....I hope you will be tipping the Lilywhites

[loughshore lad]

As a Tyrone fan I thoroughly enjoyed the Down game, as a team they have learnt an awful lot since the Tyrone game.

McKernan was outstanding at centre half back.  He knew went to sit back and when to push up and was very assured on the ball.  He looks a better option than Colgan in that role who seems a bit one paced and too keen to sit back all the time.

Kallum King is an unsung hero for Down, in the few games I have saw Down play he has put in a massive shift and every team needs a player like that.

Poland and Coulter were excellent in attack with Coulter exhibiting his full range of skills.

Marty Clarke is some player, reminds me of Brian McGuigan.  The Down fans always expect him to something extraordinary every time he gets the ball but more crucially what he does is the right thing 99% of them time.  Some times just getting on the ball and making the simple pass or bringing someone else into the play may not seem that spectacular but its absolutely vital.