Israel Attack Humanitarian Ship, 10 men killed

[mylestheslasher]

The blockade of Gaza is morally reprehensible and strategically innefective but it does not constitute genocide.
Genocide as in the wiping out of the Israeli people, is the stated policy of Hamas, Hezbollah supported by Iran and Sadam when he was alive.

You mean the Iraeli State? Wiping out a State is no Genocide.

Main street touched on it above and I'll ask it again...what becomes of the people
of Israel if the state is gone tomorrow 

This thread is 27 pages long, and to date, all you have done is attack me, and as of now, you havn't given one single opinion on the attacks.

How about you telling us what you think for a change?

Was Israel right to attack, or wrong?

Were they right to kidnap and assault Irish Citizens, and kidnap their boat in International Waters?

Since you fly the Irish flag in your avatar, maybe you would have an opinion on this?

I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who would like to hear your opinion on this topic?

What about the 19 year old US citizen who was shot 4 times in the head at close range?

What about the fact that the US havn't condemned this murder, or the other 8 murders,
whenever every other country in the world have?

Don't waste your time Dixie. You have done more than a useless waster like him could ever hope to do to help your fellow man, I know cos i met you and saw what you achieved for poor starving men, women and children. I wouldn't allow this little p***k to belittle anything you have done or anything you have seen. He hasn't even the balls to say what he thinks because he doesn't think, he just regurgitates what Fox news says. He should stick up his yankee flag and come out of the closet as he is no Irishman.

[give her dixie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT5823U5YLc

Footage of the 19 year old US citizen getting kicked , and then executed.

[Tyrones own]

Now I don't speak Iranian but there are a lot of scholars out there that claim Ahmadinejad was intentionally mis-translated with regard to his infamous speech about wiping out Israel. Supposedly he want to wipe out the current regime in Israel. I don't know about you but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the same people that called humanitarian aid workers terrorists and murdered 9 of them would make up such a story.

Oh Holy Feck.... and there maybe still some here that wonder why I have some serious questions
for the ideologues dressed as humanitarians we have amongst us
I suppose the holocaust rant was misinterpreted also ... you make me sick!!

[Zapatista]

You could say re Hamas that their goal is to wipe out the State of israel
but in practical terms to them, the State of Israel and Jews are one entity.

Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah leader of Hezbollah "If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.) Nasrallah is one of the most admired men in the Muslim and Arab world.

Hashemi Rafsanjani, the former president of Iran, has threatened Israel with nuclear destruction, boasting that an attack would kill as many as five million Jews. Rafsanjani estimated that even if Israel retaliated by dropping its own nuclear bombs, Iran would probably lose only fifteen million people, which he said would be a small "sacrifice" from among the billion Muslims in the world.

The current President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who denies the Nazi Holocaust, but calls for a modern Holocaust that would "wipe Israel off the map."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0261250620080603

It is commonly accepted that Iran backs Hezbollah

Norman Finkelstein
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=4&ar=15 - the last few lines
has said,
"looking back my chief regret is that I wasn't even more forceful in publicly defending Hezbollah against terrorist intimidation and attack."
Noam Chomsky, who works closely with Finkelstein, has said of Finkelstein that he is "a person who can speak with more authority and insight on these topics [Israel and anti-Semitism] than anyone I can think of."

I am no unconditional supporter of Israel but I have an antipathy towards the nonsense that comes out of Finklestein and Chomsky about Israel and the liberator/defenders of the oppressed nonsense about Hezbollah and Hamas.
I accept the State of Israel's right to exist and has the inherent right to defend itself, including (within reason) preemptive strikes and nuclear deterrents.

Are there supporters of the Palestinians in the West who accept Israel's right to exist?
If so, how do they see the State of Israel existing?
The weak theoretical (but widely and blindly accepted) solution of the 2 states existing side by side, is dead in the water. Imo,the chances for peace are better with the 2 a single state with full citizenship and old land issues sorted. The Israeli constitution has not yet been written but it would appear that the secular argument is proving strongest.

I don't understand how you can quote something printed in English which was said in Arabic. Not only that but it is without any context.

Nasrallah is one of the most admired men in the Muslim and Arab world. - Says who, The NYT? The Muslim world is full of admired men and they don't all agree with eachother.

Why would a Country without Nuclear weapons threaten a Nucear attack on a Country armed to the teeth with them?

Wiping Israel off the map does not mean killing all Jews. It means an end to Israel as it was 70 years ago. Again said in Arabic part quoted in English. Setting the stage by describing Ahmaddinejad as a Holocaust denier doesn't mean he said what you quoted.

It was commonly accepted that Iraq had WMD too.

I support the right of Israel to exist as an ideal however I also support the right of Palestine to exist as a reality. I agree that a two State solution is very hard to see now. I believe that Israel has become nothing more than a Western army base on Palestinian land and therefore has no right to exist. It is compromised. I believe that the western world know that a two state solution will no longer work and so are backing Irael to wipeout Palestine so that one state will exist and it will be Israel the Western army base.

Main street touched on it above and I'll ask it again...what becomes of the people
of Israel if the state is gone tomorrow 

They become Jewish Palestinians

[PadraicHenryPearse]

what becomes of the people
of Israel if the state is gone tomorrow 

They become Palestinian as they were if they lived where they do now before 1947 or if they want they can return to where they came from (like that reporter in the US said), alot of Israeli's hold Dual passports as they were not born in the region or their parents weren't born in the region. This however now is no better than what the Israeli's did to the displaced Palestinians (the people they deny the right of return too). But this is moot as Israel is here to stay. The two state solution is the only viable option, no matter how hard it is to achieve.

I am not sure what Ahmadinejad said, maybe it was lost in translation maybe he meant what he said. Either way it is moot. People say alot of stuff you shouldn't hold them to in the heat of the moment.

Here is a quote from Sharon

"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him."

Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them." (this was just after the Olso Peace deal.

Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care

And then to quote Benjamin Netanyahu

Sharon gave and gave and gave, the Palestinians got and got and got, and my question is, what did we get? Nothing and nothing and nothing,"

Hamas started because the Israelis want to fracture the PLO. Hamas grew because the PLO moved its base out of the occupied terrority to Beirut in the 80's. Hamas grew because it claimed its resistence forced the Israelis to withdraw from Gaza (2005). Why Israel didn't work with the Palestinians instead of a unilateral move is beyond me. It Length weight to the Hamas Claim. Hamas Political wing Won elections IN 2006. They offered Israel a 10-year "hudna," or truce, as implicit proof of recognition of Israel if it withdrew from all lands it seized in the 1967 Middle East War in 2008. The world turned its back on Hamas. Be very grateful Sinn Fein and the IRA were treated differently or we might not be were we are today. T

The blockade continues to strengthen support for Hamas. Hamas are the only people standing up for the people of Gaza. The people of Gaza will no be dicatated to by the Israelis. Collectively punishing the people of Gaza is not Defeating Hamas.

Have a look at the maps to see how much land the Israelis have stolen - http://palestinethinktank.com/2006/05/10/the-shrinking-map-of-palestine/

[Main Street]

Why would a Country without Nuclear weapons (Iran) threaten a Nucear attack on a Country armed to the teeth with them?

a. because they have nuclear weapons
b. they actively aspire towards having nuclear weapons
c. the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic

I suspect a mix of b and c.
Do you doubt that this was said by the Iranian president? The motives are rooted in dogma.

On the sanctions.
It does not help the situation when the Iranian president (Ahmadinejad) is a raving lunatic, actively supports Hezbollah and has publically threatened Israel with annihilation, but further sanctions against Iran and its proud people are both immoral and irrational.
Economic sanctions have become the main part of US foreign policy. They say there are about 200 nations/ half the population of the world - are currently under economic sanction by the US.

Aside from the dubious value of achieving objectives through sanctions, what we do know is that they hit the ordinary people. About the only people that sanctions rarely inconvenience are the politicians in both nations. Both sets of
politicians generally make quick and easy capital out of sanctions

[Zapatista]

Why would a Country without Nuclear weapons (Iran) threaten a Nucear attack on a Country armed to the teeth with them?

a. because they have nuclear weapons
b. they actively aspire towards having nuclear weapons
c. the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic

a. No they don't
b. We don't know that (remember Iraq?) To be fair he probably is though.
c. Not relevent.

[seafoid]

Why would a Country without Nuclear weapons (Iran) threaten a Nucear attack on a Country armed to the teeth with them?

a. because they have nuclear weapons
b. they actively aspire towards having nuclear weapons
c. the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic

I suspect a mix of b and c.
Do you doubt that this was said by the Iranian president? The motives are rooted in dogma.

To imply that Iran is run by morons is racist. the elite in Iran are motivated by the same things as the elite in Ireland- money. Was
the stewardship of Ireland between 2000 and 2008 rational  ? Just wondering. Israel would have everyone believe that Iran can't be trusted with nuclear weapons because there is something inherently unstable about the shia brain. this is pure racism. In reality Iranian nukes would neutralise Israel's first mover advantage in the area of nuclear weapons. that is the only issue. Why should Israel have the right to  nuclear weapons and to run torture centres and continue to dispossess Palestinians of their land ?

[Main Street]

Why would a Country without Nuclear weapons (Iran) threaten a Nucear attack on a Country armed to the teeth with them?

a. because they have nuclear weapons
b. they actively aspire towards having nuclear weapons
c. the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic

I suspect a mix of b and c.
Do you doubt that this was said by the Iranian president? The motives are rooted in dogma.

To imply that Iran is run by morons is racist. the elite in Iran are motivated by the same things as the elite in Ireland- money. Was
the stewardship of Ireland between 2000 and 2008 rational  ? Just wondering. Israel would have everyone believe that Iran can't be trusted with nuclear weapons because there is something inherently unstable about the shia brain. this is pure racism. In reality Iranian nukes would neutralise Israel's first mover advantage in the area of nuclear weapons. that is the only issue. Why should Israel have the right to  nuclear weapons and to run torture centres and continue to dispossess Palestinians of their land ?

Read a bit more carefully, I wrote that
"the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic"
If you want to debate that statement, then please do so without throwing irrational insults.

c. Not relevent.

Not relevant that the Iranian leader is a lunatic, has claimed the Allah given right to annihilate Israel and actively supported Hezbollah to carry out Hezbollah's Allah given right to wipe israel of the map?
I think you need to brush up on the whole theatre of rabid politics/war in the middle east before you throw every Israel security concern into the dustbin.

[muppet]

Read a bit more carefully, I wrote that
"the Iranian leader is a raving lunatic"
If you want to debate that statement, then please do so without throwing irrational insults.

You say someone you know nothing about, other than news fed from his enemies, is a raving lunatic. Then you complain about irrational insults.

[Zapatista]

Not relevant that the Iranian leader is a lunatic, has claimed the Allah given right to annihilate Israel and actively supported Hezbollah to carry out Hezbollah's Allah given right to wipe israel of the map?
I think you need to brush up on the whole theatre of rabid politics/war in the middle east before you throw every Israel security concern into the dustbin.

No it's not relevent. You do not know if he is a lunatic and even if he was it only serves to contradict you. How can a lunatic with no Nuclear weapons threaten Israel and plan to wipe it off the map (as in the entire country and it's inhabitants) be taken seriously? I heard GW Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq? Did T Blair not tell us that Iraq could wipe out Britain in 45 mins with weapons of Mass Destruction.

I don't need to brush up on anything. All I am doing is questioning were all this came from rather than accept the word of Iranian enemies.

If you can read Arabic and get an original copy of the speech were he said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map and translate it for me in context i will be far more convinced that it's true than the unknown sources I have now.

Who cares if he supports Hezbollah. Hezbollah has a right to rid their land of an Occupying Israel. Perhaps we should support them too?

[give her dixie]

[seafoid]

Not relevant that the Iranian leader is a lunatic, has claimed the Allah given right to annihilate Israel and actively supported Hezbollah to carry out Hezbollah's Allah given right to wipe israel of the map?
I think you need to brush up on the whole theatre of rabid politics/war in the middle east before you throw every Israel security concern into the dustbin.
[/quote]

I have been following Israeli hasbara for more than a decade following some time watching the occupation up at close hand. There is nothing  rabid about the Middle East. It is all about injustice. Israeli Jews have a standard of living that is 10 times higher than that of Palestinians. They run a Jim Crow system of apartheid and their hasbara propaganda is a key part of this. You obviously are a very diligent swallower. Israel needs people like you.

  On what basis can you infer that the leader of Iran is a raving lunatic? his country is bordered to the west by Iraq, a country occupied by the US and the the east by Iran, a country occupied by the US. Nuclear weapons are the only guarantee against invasion by the US.

Iran has never claimed to want to wipe Israel off the map. That is pure Israeli fiction. Ahmadin-ajad has said that the Zionist regime will disappear. I can't see it surviving the next 50 years either. The world won't tolerate apartheid run by Israel. 

Hezbollah has never launched a war against Israel . If Israel hadn't attacked Lebanon in 1982 and killed over 17,000 people there would have been no Hezbollah. Without Hezbollah Israel would never have left south Lebanon.

[give her dixie]

List of countries Israel have attacked:

1.  Palestine
2.  Egypt
3.  Jordan
4.  Syria
5.  Lebannon
6.  Turkey
7.  Iraq (by getting the US/UK to do the attacking)
8.  USA (due to Challenger 1 been registered in the USA, and attacking USS Liberty. Both in International Waters)
9.  Greece (due to one of the boats been registered there)



List of countries Iran have attacked in past 300 years?

NONE


Now, who are the lunatics?
Who have 300 undeclared nuclear weapons?
Who has threatened to use them?
Who has a history of attacking other countries?
Who steals other peoples land?
Who steals other countries passports?
Who carries state murders in other countries?
Who controls a mass concentration camp?
Who has given us mass graves?
Who has murdered with weapons of mass destruction?
Who pumps out Hasbara for eejits to believe?

[give her dixie]

Folks, if anyone can make it to the gates of Stormont this evening at 7pm,
there will be a protest against the Israeli Ambassador to Ireland Zion Evrony.
This is the same Ambassador who REFUSED to meet with the Irish Govt last week.

                         

                                             The Right Honourable Jeffrey Donaldson MP MLA

                                             invites you to a celebration of Israel's 62nd Anniversary

                                                    The GREAT  HALL, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS,

                                                          THURSDAY 10 JUNE 2010    8.00PM

                                                               SPECIAL  GUESTS  INCLUDE: -

His Excellency Mr Zion Evrony:        Israel Ambassador to Ireland

Michael Utterback:    Spokesperson for the International Christian Embassy

Sergui Pop0v :          ICEJ Representative and Professional Violinist  – Finland

MARIE GOUGH (guitar) and SORCHA ROSSITER (Keyboard)

SHALOM   DANCE   TEAM

Refreshments will be served from 7.30PM and a Buffet Supper will be served after the evening programme.

Donations to help cover expenses would be appreciated.

Cheques should be made payable to ICEJ and  forwarded (along with names of those attending and car registration number) to :

ICEJ, 38 Lough Moss Park, Carryduff, Belfast BT8 8PD (RSVP before 31 May 2010)

PLEASE NOTE SPACE IS LIMITED AND ATTENDANCE CANNOT BE GUARANTEED.



Below is a bit on the ICEJ....................


Diplomacy of Love

The International Christian Embassy Jerusalem was founded in 1980 by Christians from around the world as an act of solidarity with the Jewish people's 3,000-year-old claim and connection to Jerusalem. Today the Christian Embassy represents millions of believers from over 125 countries who share a love and concern for Israel and the Jewish people. Thus the ICEJ is considered the world's largest Christian Zionist organization, with active representation in nearly 80 nations. Some 50 full-time staff serve in our Jerusalem headquarters coming from over a dozen countries and speaking many different languages. We invite you to consider us as your Embassy in Jerusalem.

Work and Witness

The Embassy's work and witness is founded on the mandate of Isaiah 40:1, "Comfort, comfort my people..." For more than 25 years the ICEJ has been reaching out in practical ways to the people of Israel, while seeking to inform, educate and inspire Christians round the world to stand against the rising tide of hostility and anti-Semitism directed against the Jewish State. Our Ministry spans four distinct areas, to Comfort Israel, Educate the Church, Celebrate God's faithfulness, and Confront anti-Semitism.