Israel Attack Humanitarian Ship, 10 men killed

[give her dixie]

http://www.ihh.org.tr/uploads/2010/insaniyardim-filosu-ozet-raporu_en.pdf

Fopr anyone interested, this is a comprehensive report from IHH on the attack on the Mavi Marmara.
It has many photo's, eyewitness accounts, and hard facts.

I bet Trimble and co. wont dare to publish anything close to this........

Well worth a read, I promise....

[Main Street]

  I don't see what the problem is with members of Friends of Israel from meeting and giving their viewpoints. The lines are marked to their support for the rights of Israel to exist, to exist free from attack, the threat of attack and defend itself from both. Quite basic stuff unless you disagree with Israels' right to exist like some of israel's rabid neighbouring fanatic leaders.
Certainly lines would be crossed if the Friends of Israel was used as a platform to support Israels' blockade of Gazza,.

The horse has already bolted regards the justification for the continuation of the blockade. This "independent" commission appears to be composed of people with similar leanings. Not only that, the scope of the tribunal is probably within very strictly defined, legalistic parameters. In the end, they might only give their opinion as to whether the boarding and seizure of the flotilla ships was in accordance with maritime law, which is not at all the major concern of humanitarians.

I posted a few articles on this the last time you brought it up and you never commented on them, the refuted the claim that Irans prime minister ever said he wanted to wipe Israel of the map. Do you still contend that he did or do you accept, like I do, that he was intentionally misquoted to stir anti Iranian hatred?

Did you reply to something I wrote?
I never wrote anything about the Iranian PM.

You posted some article some time ago that wasn't worth passing comment on. 
It is entirely your prerogative if you wish to believe such stuff as gospel.
The comments by the Iranian president Ahmadinejad and ex president Rafsanjani are vouched for, and were even passed on by the Iranian state news agency.
Only the other day I heard an interview with another maniac, the Iranian Minister of Foreign Affairs, still moaning about Europe making the Islam world pay for its own crimes against Jews. And that the establishment of Israel was a conspiracy by the West against Islam.
Quite frankly these Iranian political leaders are demagogues and engage in demagoguery of the lowest sort against Jews.

Why was it not worth passing comment on? It gave a word by word translation of what the Iranian PM actually said, as opposed to the quotes provided by to us all by the US media. I'm not saying the country is an idealic place but it is certainly no worse than Israel. If you can provide me a link to an article that quotes the entire speech and show me where he said he wants Israel wiped of the map I will take that on board and maybe I will change my mind.

Again Myles, I never referred once to the Iranian PM. I referred to the Iranian President,  present and past.
The comment in the linked article  you provided was not worth commentating on because quite simply it had no credibility on its own.There are no credits (or whatever they are called)  and no links to such credits contained in the article. My grandmother could have written it.
The translation of the Iranian president's speech was provided by the Iranian state translation service to news agencies all over the world. Naturally words will get twisted sideways but the Iranian President has had plenty of opportunity to set the record straight, but he just continues with different shades of the  insane rhetoric while some  translators dance on the head of pins making differentiations between destruction of a state and destruction of a people. Okay he now says says he doesn't deny the Holocaust but he wants more research into it, as in was it a real event? 
As I have already said clearly, that economic blockade (of Iran) mainly serves the self serving rhetoric of politicians on both sides while people suffer and it just does not help this situation when the Iranian president is also a raving lunatic. If you want to discuss that elsewhere then fine.
This thread is supposed to be about the humanitarian ship which sought to peacefully  breach the inhuman blockade by the Israeli State of Gaza, and 9 were killed/murdered on that mission.

[give her dixie]

It's official: Israel has gotten away with it -- again
It's been a month since the Israeli navy killed nine humanitarian aid workers. But it's like it never happened

When the Israeli Navy raided the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish ship that was part of an aid flotilla attempting to break the blockade of Gaza, and killed nine activists in international waters, the world took notice. Condemnations of the raid and calls for the end of the economically crippling 3-year-old Israeli blockade of Gaza rung out from across the world. Even the United States, Israel's strongest ally, pressured Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to ease the siege on Gaza, calling the situation there "unsustainable."

But that was then, and this is now. Over a month after the deadly raid, and after an overwhelming bipartisan majority in Congress signed onto an American-Israel Public Affairs Committee letter that expressed "strong support for Israel's right to defend itself," the Obama administration is letting Israel get away scot-free. Israel will continue with the status quo of occupation and blockade while the prospects for a Palestinian state continue to whither away.

Israel and the United States' loving embrace was on full display this week when Netanyahu came to the White House. Essentially a "kiss and make up" session meant for domestic political consumption in both countries, Obama repeatedly affirmed that "the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable." The president praised Netanyahu for making "real progress on the ground" in Gaza by allowing in more consumer goods and for being "willing to take risks for peace." Netanyahu, with Obama's backing, called for "direct talks" with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, and said that Israel wants peace as long as the West Bank "isn't overtaken by Iran's proxies and used as a launching ground for terrorist attacks."

Netanyahu will head home with a smile on his face, satisfied that he has been given full blessing to continue his destructive policies. As for the Palestinians? They will continue to be blockaded in Gaza, squeezed in East Jerusalem and faced with threats of expulsion, deportation and, for Palestinian citizens of Israel, calls to strip them of their citizenship.

Despite Obama's praise for Netanyahu's showing "restraint over the last several months" -- apparently a reference to the "settlement freeze" -- the dire situation on the ground for Palestinians remains the same. The meeting served as a reminder that in the thoroughly lopsided game of "peace talks" between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, people on the ground in the occupied territories don't gain a thing.

For the residents of Gaza, Israel's deliberate policy of "economic strangulation," as Sen. Charles Schumer, a staunch defender of Israel, revealingly put it, will continue. The "easing" of the blockade is now legitimized by the United States, who praised the allowing in of more consumer goods, but the naval blockade remains. The private delivery of construction materials into Gaza -- badly needed since three-fourths of the coastal strip's damaged infrastructure, sustained during the 2008-09 Israeli assault, remains that way -- is still prohibited and exports are still banned. The people of Gaza remain trapped in their open-air prison, most of them unable to enter and exit as they please.

The "settlement freeze" was never really a freeze, and construction on illegal settlements continues. Settlements in the occupied West Bank, which constitute 42 percent of the land, according to a new report by Israeli human rights group B'Tselem, will continue to encircle Palestinian towns and villages and eat up Palestinian land supposedly meant for their state.

East Jerusalem, illegally annexed by Israel following the 1967 war, remains a keg waiting to explode. A recently approved plan to demolish 22 homes in the Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan in East Jerusalem led to clashes between Israeli forces and Palestinian residents, and served as a reminder to the world that Israel has no intention of settling the conflict. Four Hamas lawmakers who are residents of East Jerusalem are facing the prospect of being deported, which the U.N. rapporteur on human rights in the territories called a possible war crime.

As for the "peace process," President Abbas is under intense pressure from the U.S. and Israel to enter into direct talks, instead of the indirect negotiations currently being conducted. But it's unclear what ordinary Palestinians on the ground would gain from those talks, and the legitimacy of the P.A.'s involvement is questionable, as it only governs the West Bank and Hamas remains in control of Gaza.

The steady drumbeat of land confiscation, settlement building and the blockade of Gaza will not be challenged by the Obama administration. Israeli impunity for violations of international law have won out again. The only hope for Palestinians remains in the growing international movement for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. If the Obama administration won't impose costs on Israel, that leaves the task up to global civil society.

[Tyrones own]

[Arthur_Friend]

Intellectual debate is alive and well it seems.

[ardmhachaabu]

Arthur, have you not met TO before? 

[give her dixie]

Published 08.07.10

An excellent meeting

Two statesmen met in Washington on Tuesday who are looking smaller and smaller, who are taking smaller and smaller steps.

By Gideon Levy

It really was an excellent meeting: The chance that a binational state will be established has improved as a result; relations between Israel and the United States are indeed "marvelous." Israel can continue with the whims of its occupation. The president of the United States proved Tuesday that perhaps there has been change, but not as far as we are concerned.


If there remained any vestiges of hope in the Middle East from Barack Obama, they have dissipated; if some people still expected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to lead a courageous move, they now know they made a mistake (and misled others ).

The masked ball is at its peak: Preening each other, Obama and Netanyahu have proved that even their heavy layer of makeup can no longer hide the wrinkles. The worn-out, wizened old face of the longest "peace process" in history has been awarded another surprising and incomprehensible extention. It's on its way nowhere.

The "warm" and "sympathetic" reception, albeit a little forced, including the presidential dog, Bo, the meeting of the wives, with the U.S. president accompanying the Israeli prime minister to the car in an "unprecedented" way, as the press enthused, cannot obscure reality. The reality is that Israel has again managed to fool not only America, but even its most promising president in years.

It was enough to listen to the joint press conference to understand, or better yet, not understand, where we are headed. Will the freeze continue? Obama and Netanyahu squirmed, formulated and obfuscated, and no clear answer was forthcoming. If there was a time when people marveled at Henry Kissinger's "constructive ambiguity," now we have destructive ambiguity. Even when it came to the minimum move of a construction freeze, without which there is no proof of serious intent on Israel's part, the two leaders threw up a smoke screen. A cowardly yes-and-no by both.

More than anything, the meeting proved that the criminal waste of time will go on. A year and a half has passed since the two took office, and almost nothing has changed except lip service to the freeze. A few lifted roadblocks here, a little less blockade of Gaza there - all relatively marginal matters, a bogus substitute for a bold jump over the abyss, without which nothing will move.

When direct talks become a goal, without anyone having a clue what Israel's position is - a strange negotiation in which everyone knows what the Palestinians want and no one knows for sure what Israel wants - the wheel not only does not go forward, it goes backward. There are plenty of excuses and explanations: Obama has the congressional elections ahead of him, so he mustn't make Netanyahu angry.

After that, the footfalls of the presidential elections can be heard, and then he certainly must not anger the Jews. Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is pressuring Netanyahu now; tomorrow it might be Likud MK Danny Danon, and after all, you can't expect Netanyahu to commit political suicide. And there you have it, his term in office is over, with no achievements. Good for you, Obama; bravo Netanyahu. You managed to make a mockery of each other, and together, of us all.

Netanyahu will be coming back to Israel over the weekend, adorned with false accomplishments. The settlers will mark a major achievement. Even if they don't not admit it - they are never satisfied, after all - they can rejoice secretly. Their project will continue to prosper. If they have doubled their numbers since the Oslo Accords, now they can triple them.

And then what? Here then is a question for Obama and Netanyahu: Where to? No playing for time can blur the question. Where are they headed? What will improve in another year? What will be more promising in another two years? The Syrian president is knocking at the door begging for peace with Israel, and the two leaders are ignoring him. Will he still be knocking in two years? The Arab League's initiative is still valid; terror has almost ceased. What will the situation be after they have finished compromising over the freeze in construction of balconies and ritual baths?

Two statesmen met in Washington on Tuesday who are looking smaller and smaller, who are taking smaller and smaller steps. They have decided not to decide, which in itself is a decision. When the chance of a two-state solution has long since entered injury time, they have decided on more extra time. Get ready for the binational state, or the next round of bloodletting.

[Mike Sheehy]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

[Tyrones own]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

The short answer is obviously not, sure when was the word last uttered?
This Flotilla really never was about Aid...I think most here have eventually come to terms with that,
except of course for the few cheerleaders that are still dancing to his same tired tune!

[pintsofguinness]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

The short answer is obviously not, sure when was the word last uttered?
This Flotilla really never was about Aid...I think most here have eventually come to terms with that,
except of course for the few cheerleaders that are still dancing to his same tired tune!

and what was it about?

[Puckoon]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

The short answer is obviously not, sure when was the word last uttered?
This Flotilla really never was about Aid...I think most here have eventually come to terms with that,
except of course for the few cheerleaders that are still dancing to his same tired tune!

Disingenious to say the least TO. Even if there were those aboard/involved in the organization, who knew how well the resulting action by the israelis would further any political agenda - there were and are plenty of people involved in the plight for gaza for very humanitarian reasons. They are to be commended. It isnt their fault that there are others whose over zealous agendas besmirch the humanitarian nature of their cause.

[pintsofguinness]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

The short answer is obviously not, sure when was the word last uttered?
This Flotilla really never was about Aid...I think most here have eventually come to terms with that,
except of course for the few cheerleaders that are still dancing to his same tired tune!

Disingenious to say the least TO. Even if there were those aboard/involved in the organization, who knew how well the resulting action by the israelis would further any political agenda - there were and are plenty of people involved in the plight for gaza for very humanitarian reasons. They are to be commended. It isnt their fault that there are others whose over zealous agendas besmirch the humanitarian nature of their cause.

and those people still didnt deserve to be shot!

[give her dixie]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

Attitudes like this were fairly common regarding Ireland during the famine.
People didn't get a shite about us, and well, we all know what happened.

However, one country did give a shite Mike, and it was Turkey. They came to our aid, and
just like the problems they faced in getting to Gaza with aid, the British denied them entry
to Ireland.

Thankfully there are people in this world who really care about humanity, and try to help
and make a difference. At the same time, there are those who don't give a shite.
The latter are the ones who really need the help.

Below is an article about Turkey sending the aid to Ireland during the famine:

Gratitude to the Ottomans
Abdullah AYMAZ   

The Treaty of Lausanne, signed in 1923 between the allied powers and the Turks in the aftermath of World War I, still prevails on the Turkish agenda. While on the one hand, some celebrate this treaty, arguing that it Marks Turkish independence from the invading powers, others are critical about it as so much was given away, like Cyprus, the Aegean islands, Mosul, etc.

Yahya Kemal Beyatlý (d. 1958), a famous Turkish poet and a former ambassador, had an interesting memory from the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne, in which he participated as a reporter. He recounts that while all the plenipotentiaries of the allied powers (The British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the Serb- Croat-Slovene State) voted in unison in opposition to Turkey, the representative from Ireland was an exception; in each vote, he raised his hand in favor of Turkey's interests.

Beyatlý noticed this unusual person, and could not help asking him the reason. "I am obliged to do it. Not only I, but are all Irish men and women," said the Irish representative. "When we suffered from famine and disease, your Ottoman ancestors shipped loads of food and monetary donations. We have never forgotten the friendly hand extended to us in our difficult times. Your nation deserves to be supported on
every occasion."

Ireland was ridden with famine and disease between 1845 and 1849. Also known as the Great Hunger, this famine had lasting effects: at least one million people died due to famine-related diseases and more than one million Irish fled, mainly to the United States, England, Canada, and Australia. Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid sent five ships full of food supplies and funds as charity. However, the British administration did not give permission for these ships to enter the ports of Belfast or Dublin.

Taner Baytok, former Turkish ambassador to Ireland, recounts in his memoirs that these ships secretly discharged their load in Drogheda, a town approximately 70 miles north of Dublin. In May 2, 1995, commemorating this charity, the mayor of Drogheda, Alderman Frank Goddfrey, paid honor to Baytok and erected a plaque in the Westcourt Hotel, which was then the City Hall where Turkish seamen stayed.

Baytok says he first learned of this act of charity from an article by Thomas P. O'Neill published in The Threshold magazine in 1957. The Otoman sultan declared that he would donate £10,000, but on the orders of Queen Victoria the British Ambassador in Istanbul informed the Sultan that he shouldreduce this amount, for the Queen's donation was only £2,000. As noted in the letter of gratitude from the "noblemen, gentlemen, and inhabitants of Ireland," the amount donated by Sultan Abdülmecid was reduced by the Queen to one thousand pounds.

Ottoman efforts to provide food and lessen the pains of the Irish people, despite political obstacles and the long distance, certainly deserves to be appreciated.It is a case study that should be analyzed carefully, not only as historical evidence for the friendship between two nations, but also as a perfect example that differences of race, religion, or language should not prevent humanitarian aid.

This generous charity from a Muslim sultan to a Christian nation is also important, particularly in our time when Muslims are often unfairly accused of human rights violations. Likewise, the appreciative plaque and overall reaction of the Irish society in return for this charity deserves to be applauded. We hope that the Turkish-Irish friendship sets a model for peace among different nations.

[Arthur_Friend]

so, did any of the aid make it through to the desired final destination ? ..or does anyone give a shite...

The short answer is obviously not, sure when was the word last uttered?
This Flotilla really never was about Aid...I think most here have eventually come to terms with that,
except of course for the few cheerleaders that are still dancing to his same tired tune!

The organisers of the flotilla made it very clear from day one that it was not only about aid but also breaking the illegal blockade of Gaza.

Unless you can enlighten us all about some other agenda you are aware of?

[give her dixie]

Short clip folks from the last convoy that broke the siege on Gaza and delivered humanitarian aid in January.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REc4CIBzZpY&feature=related