The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[glens abu]

That's not what I said, I have never asked them for a damm thing.  My wife has though, that's what I said.

I had reason to contact SF and the SDLP over an issue my wife was having.  Neither of them really did anything about it even though it was clearly within their power to do so, shinners sent an email while the SDLP did a bit of donkey work in terms of phone calls, emails, letters, I won't go into details on here about it for obvious reasons but nothing seemed to work.  By chance I happened to bump into Ken Magennis on a bus from Belfast to Enniskillen and I thought I would chance my arm with him.  I was wearing an Armagh shirt at the time and had a bit of craic with him about Tyrone and that he was a bit of a hypocrite watching matches on TV when he wouldn't go to one if it was on a Sunday.  He proved to be way more helpful than either of the SDLP or the shinners.

This is what you said.

;DAh sure he doesn't tell lies.

[ardmhachaabu]

That's not what I said, I have never asked them for a damm thing.  My wife has though, that's what I said.

I had reason to contact SF and the SDLP over an issue my wife was having.  Neither of them really did anything about it even though it was clearly within their power to do so, shinners sent an email while the SDLP did a bit of donkey work in terms of phone calls, emails, letters, I won't go into details on here about it for obvious reasons but nothing seemed to work.  By chance I happened to bump into Ken Magennis on a bus from Belfast to Enniskillen and I thought I would chance my arm with him.  I was wearing an Armagh shirt at the time and had a bit of craic with him about Tyrone and that he was a bit of a hypocrite watching matches on TV when he wouldn't go to one if it was on a Sunday.  He proved to be way more helpful than either of the SDLP or the shinners.

This is what you said.

Fair enough, apologies, I can't be expected to remember every word I type.  Anyway,  I use we/I when I am talking about my family.  The last time I even spoke to a shinner it ended up in a row, I wouldn't ask them for a thing and I have many reasons why.  I might even do a post on them at some point

[Hardy]

Why Sinn Fein Are A Bunch of Hypocrites

1. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, SF recognised and signed up to what they had previously derided as the 'unionist veto'. It was rebranded as the consent of the people of the north to spare their blushes. As an SDLP supporter I've always supported the consent principle. Republicans used to brand people like me as subservient for doing so.

So? It was not rebranded. It was the culmination of talks with all interested parties and players and it was endorsed by all the people of Ireland. It also had a Nationalist Veto. You can't compre the GFA with anything previous.

You can compare it to Sunningdale.

2. Under the same Agreement, SF agreed to enter the Stormont Assembly and take part in the administration of British Rule in Ireland. Indeed, their burning ambition now is to hold the post of First Minister in this Assembly. As an SDLP supporter I've no problem with a local Assembly. However, republicans used to brand people like me as west Brits for holding such a view.

Under the same agreement SF were mandated by a referendum of the Irish people to enter the assembly .... It's called respecting the wishes of the people.

Since they didn't seem to need a mandate from the Irish people for the "armed struggle", nor show much respect for the wishes of the people, that's not much of an argument.

3. SF supported the right of every Irishman and woman to take up arms against the British 'occupation'. 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', etc etc. SF now consider the so called republicans dissidents as 'traitors' to Ireland for doing so. Only Gerry and Marty, apparently, have the right to declare war.

SF still hold the opinion that there is a right to take up arms against the British occupation. They believe that there are certain conditions that must be in place for this to be justified. Those conditions are not there and anyone who takes up arms in the present political climate is a traitor to Ireland.

Who elected SF as arbiters of the justification for war?

4. SF preach equality for all and the rights of women, yet they deny justice to women who've been abused or raped by leading republicans.

f**k you for that last comment.

What's wrong with that comment? Are SF more sacred than the Catholic Church in immunity from criticism in this forum?

[glens abu]

Why Sinn Fein Are A Bunch of Hypocrites

1. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, SF recognised and signed up to what they had previously derided as the 'unionist veto'. It was rebranded as the consent of the people of the north to spare their blushes. As an SDLP supporter I've always supported the consent principle. Republicans used to brand people like me as subservient for doing so.

So? It was not rebranded. It was the culmination of talks with all interested parties and players and it was endorsed by all the people of Ireland. It also had a Nationalist Veto. You can't compre the GFA with anything previous.

You can compare it to Sunningdale.

2. Under the same Agreement, SF agreed to enter the Stormont Assembly and take part in the administration of British Rule in Ireland. Indeed, their burning ambition now is to hold the post of First Minister in this Assembly. As an SDLP supporter I've no problem with a local Assembly. However, republicans used to brand people like me as west Brits for holding such a view.

Under the same agreement SF were mandated by a referendum of the Irish people to enter the assembly .... It's called respecting the wishes of the people.

Since they didn't seem to need a mandate from the Irish people for the "armed struggle", nor show much respect for the wishes of the people, that's not much of an argument.

3. SF supported the right of every Irishman and woman to take up arms against the British 'occupation'. 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', etc etc. SF now consider the so called republicans dissidents as 'traitors' to Ireland for doing so. Only Gerry and Marty, apparently, have the right to declare war.

SF still hold the opinion that there is a right to take up arms against the British occupation. They believe that there are certain conditions that must be in place for this to be justified. Those conditions are not there and anyone who takes up arms in the present political climate is a traitor to Ireland.

Who elected SF as arbiters of the justification for war?

4. SF preach equality for all and the rights of women, yet they deny justice to women who've been abused or raped by leading republicans.

f**k you for that last comment.

What's wrong with that comment? Are SF more sacred than the Catholic Church in immunity from criticism in this forum?

What women did they deny justice to that were raped by leading Republicans

[Hardy]

What do you think about the Áine Tyrrell case?

[glens abu]

What do you think about the Áine Tyrrell case?

That was a child who allegedly was abused by her Father and her family were told to report it to the police which they did and it was also reported to SS so don't understand how Sinn Fein has denied her justice.She definitely hasn't got justice yet but not Sinn Fein fault.If she ever gets justice I expect will depend on the courts.

[Sandino]

This is my opinion. This thread shows all that is wrong with the SDLP, their supporters and those who canvass for them, at least the ones who have come to my door. I have not seen anyone on here arguing why someone should vote the SDLP or than vote for us we're not the Shinners. Too much of their rhetoric is all about Sinn Fein and not about themselves and what their vision is. Not the sound bite vision we normally hear on TV. They have actually come to may door and ridiculed other members of their own party. Splitting the Pro-United Ireland vote in Fermanagh and South Tyrone was the last straw for me. By the way for those who are not SDLP and are who are just anti Sinn Fein that's your opinion so good luck to you!

[lynchbhoy]

so sf are guilty of allowing criminal abuse towards women - and are the only people this is applicable to

jeez, thats a bit of a mad, far fetched grasp of an attempt !

also, i'd see sf in stormont , not as administering british rule - but dilutng it by adding themselves to the gathering- and injecting the Irishness into the assembly that is needed.
Years ago it was pointless for SDLP (as sf didnt exist then) because of the inequality in the establishment and system. Now things have changed thus sf should be able to do their bit.
sdlp could do the same if they got off their arses !

Hardy - there was a mandate from the people under attack that the ira were protecting. Ask anyone from any of these areas and they may abhor violence now, but were glad of the intervention at the time. We wouldnt have the status that exists now otherwise !

[Zapatista]

You can compare it to Sunningdale.

For the exact same reasons I pointed out, you can't. Sunningdale was typical of the arrogance and lack of real understanding of the people still evident in the SDLP. The SDLP sense of entitlement knows no bounds.

Since they didn't seem to need a mandate from the Irish people for the "armed struggle", nor show much respect for the wishes of the people, that's not much of an argument.

The mandate for that was taken from the 2nd Dail. The last election held on an all ireland basis without duress (untill the GFA). Also, as I said, the conditions were right for it.

Who elected SF as arbiters of the justification for war?

The Irish people decided that of their own free will, SF just act according to that.

What's wrong with that comment? Are SF more sacred than the Catholic Church in immunity from criticism in this forum?

Criticism is fine even though your question is loaded and not related to the original post. Throwing out false accusations of the crimes the poster said is not fine.

[Hereiam]

Have worked with ken before. The man takes no shit. If he says he will do something for you he see's it through to the end.

[johnneycool]

Hardy - there was a mandate from the people under attack that the ira were protecting. Ask anyone from any of these areas and they may abhor violence now, but were glad of the intervention at the time. We wouldnt have the status that exists now otherwise !

Thats a big bite for a lot of our southern colleagues to fathum and if you ever vist AFR as I do they just don't buy it as it doesn't suit their SF/IRA bad everyone else good simplistic thinking.

There are the odd few southern posters on here and AFR who are slightly more open minded but do seem to be in the minority.

[Myles Na G.]

You can compare it to Sunningdale.

For the exact same reasons I pointed out, you can't. Sunningdale was typical of the arrogance and lack of real understanding of the people still evident in the SDLP. The SDLP sense of entitlement knows no bounds.

Since they didn't seem to need a mandate from the Irish people for the "armed struggle", nor show much respect for the wishes of the people, that's not much of an argument.

The mandate for that was taken from the 2nd Dail. The last election held on an all ireland basis without duress (untill the GFA). Also, as I said, the conditions were right for it.

Who elected SF as arbiters of the justification for war?

The Irish people decided that of their own free will, SF just act according to that.

What's wrong with that comment? Are SF more sacred than the Catholic Church in immunity from criticism in this forum?

Criticism is fine even though your question is loaded and not related to the original post. Throwing out false accusations of the crimes the poster said is not fine.

From the 2nd Dail you say? So we all live our lives according to the wishes of an electorate which had mostly died off by the time the troubles started? And what's so special about that all Ireland election? Why not elevate one of the elections won by Parnell's party and demand home rule instead of independence? Why is the election of 1918 given preeminence? Oh that's right - because it produced a result Irish republicans liked. Every single political party in Ireland from 1970 onwards called for the IRA to end its campaign. Did republicans respect the mandate of these people? Did they hell. Gerry and Marty had declared war and the war would only end when Gerry and Marty decided. The Irish people could go fcuk themselves as far as they were concerned.

[red hander]

We didn't get the chance to live our lives according to the wishes of the electorate because our imperial masters decided to ignore the democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people and impose partition ... for you to suggest the Troubles were not directly linked to same just highlights your ongoing ignorance on this board, as does your throwing of the Home Rule argument in ... another example of the democratic wishes of the Irish people being stifled by a pro-Unionist parliament ... do you not think the constant, undemocratic stalling on Home Rule in the House of Lords contributed to hardening attitudes and support for full independence via armed struggle as opposed to dominion status, Einstein?

[armaghniac]

Every Irish election after the introduction of anything approaching a representative franchise showed a majority in favour of separation from Britain, something entirely ignored by the colonial masters. This ignorance from London effectively indicated that home rule type arrangements were untenable as there would not be good faith from the British. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Ulick]