The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[Maguire01]

Did they not support the GFA? In that respect, they're no different to the SDLP.

Yes they did support it. In what respect? That they both supported the GFA? That's that broad it has no meaning.

Well if defined the constitutional position and how that might be changed. And both parties signed up to those principles.

[Zapatista]

Did they not support the GFA? In that respect, they're no different to the SDLP.

Yes they did support it. In what respect? That they both supported the GFA? That's that broad it has no meaning.

Well if defined the constitutional position and how that might be changed. And both parties signed up to those principles.

Even the laziest of observers wouldn't use the GFA to define anyone interested party's position on a UI. The GFA was agreed as a new default position and can be considered a work in progress by anyone. Right now it's the only show in town but it doesn't change anyones ambition. Any observer will tell you that SF and the SDLP differ on the UI issue. As do pro GFA unionists.

[ardmhachaabu]

Thay may be true Zap but it doesn't get away from the fact the SF are administering British rule in the north by partaking in Stormont.  What makes them a unionist party in my opinion is that they are recognising it, maintaining it and working in its structures.  What happened to 'No return to Stormont' and 'Not a bullet, not an ounce' ?

I believe it was inevitable that they were dragged into the 20th century and shown the merits of democracy.  At least it stopped them killing people but let's remember that they are so far off their stated aims at the outset of their war that it's now blatantly obvious (to anyone who doesn't believe their lies) that all they can do is posture about a united Ireland and how they are actively bringing it about.  It's only posture though with no real political significance, Adams and his cabal know this deep down, that's why we see these gimmicks all the time like their activists painting postboxes green.  magickingdom is right in his marker of 20-30 years

On another note, someone had claimed that the shift of votes to SF and DUP means that they are moving more towards the middle.  I fundamentally disagree with this position.  I think what has actually happened is that their positions have hardened and gotten even more extreme than they already were

[ziggysego]

Thay may be true Zap but it doesn't get away from the fact the SF are administering British rule in the north by partaking in Stormont.  What makes them a unionist party in my opinion is that they are recognising it, maintaining it and working in its structures.  What happened to 'No return to Stormont' and 'Not a bullet, not an ounce' ?

I believe it was inevitable that they were dragged into the 20th century and shown the merits of democracy.  At least it stopped them killing people but let's remember that they are so far off their stated aims at the outset of their war that it's now blatantly obvious (to anyone who doesn't believe their lies) that all they can do is posture about a united Ireland and how they are actively bringing it about.  It's only posture though with no real political significance, Adams and his cabal know this deep down, that's why we see these gimmicks all the time like their activists painting postboxes green.  magickingdom is right in his marker of 20-30 years

On another note, someone had claimed that the shift of votes to SF and DUP means that they are moving more towards the middle.  I fundamentally disagree with this position.  I think what has actually happened is that their positions have hardened and gotten even more extreme than they already were

Someone would need to drag you into the 21st century ardmhachaabu

[ardmhachaabu]

Maybe ziggy but I meant them calling a ceasefire and renouncing violence.  That happened when it was still the 20th century 

[glens abu]

What a great result for the Shinners and Michelle in particular,just hope the people of F&ST never think about electing another stoop again,they are slowly but surely being found out for what they are.

[Zapatista]

Thay may be true Zap but it doesn't get away from the fact the SF are administering British rule in the north by partaking in Stormont.  What makes them a unionist party in my opinion is that they are recognising it, maintaining it and working in its structures.  What happened to 'No return to Stormont' and 'Not a bullet, not an ounce' ?

I believe it was inevitable that they were dragged into the 20th century and shown the merits of democracy.  At least it stopped them killing people but let's remember that they are so far off their stated aims at the outset of their war that it's now blatantly obvious (to anyone who doesn't believe their lies) that all they can do is posture about a united Ireland and how they are actively bringing it about.  It's only posture though with no real political significance, Adams and his cabal know this deep down, that's why we see these gimmicks all the time like their activists painting postboxes green.  magickingdom is right in his marker of 20-30 years

On another note, someone had claimed that the shift of votes to SF and DUP means that they are moving more towards the middle.  I fundamentally disagree with this position.  I think what has actually happened is that their positions have hardened and gotten even more extreme than they already were

Most of what you said is 'lets pretend'. Recognising Partition is not Unionism. How the feck are ye suposed to change anything if you believe it doesn't exist? It seems to me that the SDLP are bitter that SF are now at the political table upstaging them. Grow up.

SF helped drag politics in the north into the 20th century away from the aparthied politics that wasn't even acceptable in Africa at the time.

So now you reckon SF have hardened and got more extreme

[armaghniac]

Any observer will tell you that SF and the SDLP differ on the UI issue.

And what is that difference, exactly?

[Maguire01]

Even the laziest of observers wouldn't use the GFA to define anyone interested party's position on a UI. The GFA was agreed as a new default position and can be considered a work in progress by anyone. Right now it's the only show in town but it doesn't change anyones ambition. Any observer will tell you that SF and the SDLP differ on the UI issue. As do pro GFA unionists.

So consent is out the window then? What's the new strategy? We all have ambition, but that's not much good on it's own.

And if it's not consent, why the general excitement among republicans at any sign of futher movement towards the 50%?

[ardmhachaabu]

Thay may be true Zap but it doesn't get away from the fact the SF are administering British rule in the north by partaking in Stormont.  What makes them a unionist party in my opinion is that they are recognising it, maintaining it and working in its structures.  What happened to 'No return to Stormont' and 'Not a bullet, not an ounce' ?

I believe it was inevitable that they were dragged into the 20th century and shown the merits of democracy.  At least it stopped them killing people but let's remember that they are so far off their stated aims at the outset of their war that it's now blatantly obvious (to anyone who doesn't believe their lies) that all they can do is posture about a united Ireland and how they are actively bringing it about.  It's only posture though with no real political significance, Adams and his cabal know this deep down, that's why we see these gimmicks all the time like their activists painting postboxes green.  magickingdom is right in his marker of 20-30 years

On another note, someone had claimed that the shift of votes to SF and DUP means that they are moving more towards the middle.  I fundamentally disagree with this position.  I think what has actually happened is that their positions have hardened and gotten even more extreme than they already were

Most of what you said is 'lets pretend'. Recognising Partition is not Unionism. How the feck are ye suposed to change anything if you believe it doesn't exist? It seems to me that the SDLP are bitter that SF are now at the political table upstaging them. Grow up.

SF helped drag politics in the north into the 20th century away from the aparthied politics that wasn't even acceptable in Africa at the time.

So now you reckon SF have hardened and got more extreme

It's not let's pretend, it's reality.  Zap, if the SDLP are unionist then so is SF.  They are maintaining, implementing and administering a unionist Assembly.  What I mean by that is, the Assembly is the political manifestation of the union therefore it's a unionist Assembly, not a Unionist Assembly.  So all the parties who are in there are unionist parties

Seriously, how do you make out the Sf helped drag politics in the north into the 20th century?  By getting their armed wing to stop killing people? 

[Zapatista]

So consent is out the window then? What's the new strategy? We all have ambition, but that's not much good on it's own.

And if it's not consent, why the general excitement among republicans at any sign of futher movement towards the 50%?

Of course it's consent. It's also getting that consent. RAther than sit about and hope enough people become republican SF are activly encouraging Republicanism. They are doing this on both sides of the Border. They are in the Dail and the assembley trying to promote republicanism and also implement policy that works in harmony on both sides of the border. SF are nit sitting about waiting for consent, they are pursueing it.

It's not let's pretend, it's reality.  Zap, if the SDLP are unionist then so is SF.  They are maintaining, implementing and administering a unionist Assembly.  What I mean by that is, the Assembly is the political manifestation of the union therefore it's a unionist Assembly, not a Unionist Assembly.  So all the parties who are in there are unionist parties

The assembley is as much politics as possible at the minute in the hands of Irish people. SF are fighting for more of that. They are maintaing implementing and adminstrated from Ireland. This is not ideal but it's a step in the right direction. Again they are fighting for more of this. Your definition is black and white to suit you. This is childish, can you be grwon up about it? You can subscribe to any political ideal you wish but you must work within the structures that are there in order to get it. Working outside the structure against the wishes of the people will achieve nothing. By your definition you can't be a socailist elected to the European Union or a Unionist elected to the Dail. That's just rediculous.

Seriously, how do you make out the Sf helped drag politics in the north into the 20th century?  By getting their armed wing to stop killing people? 

Yes, It helped at the right time.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Some of the Stoops in this discussion are really stooping down low -- to the bottom of the barrel -- in their attempts to paint SF as unionist as the SDLP   

[glens abu]

Some of the Stoops in this discussion are really stooping down low -- to the bottom of the barrel -- in their attempts to paint SF as unionist as the SDLP   

you wouldn't believe how low they can stoop

[trileacman]

It's not let's pretend, it's reality.  Zap, if the SDLP are unionist then so is SF.  They are maintaining, implementing and administering a unionist Assembly.  What I mean by that is, the Assembly is the political manifestation of the union therefore it's a unionist Assembly, not a Unionist Assembly.  So all the parties who are in there are unionist parties

The assembley is as much politics as possible at the minute in the hands of Irish people. SF are fighting for more of that.

So are the SDLP.

They are maintaing implementing and adminstrated from Ireland.

So are the SDLP.

This is not ideal but it's a step in the right direction. Again they are fighting for more of this. Your definition is black and white to suit you. This is childish, can you be grwon up about it? You can subscribe to any political ideal you wish but you must work within the structures that are there in order to get it. (What SF and the SLDP are doing?) Working outside the structure against the wishes of the people will achieve nothing. By your definition you can't be a socailist elected to the European Union or a Unionist elected to the Dail. That's just rediculous.

Apart from that one part thats all completely irrelevant bull.
Can you come with any evidence that SF are not a unionist party and the SDLP are?

[armaghniac]

Some of the Stoops in this discussion are really stooping down low -- to the bottom of the barrel -- in their attempts to paint SF as unionist as the SDLP 

I don't think anyone is claiming that SF is unionist, but rather that the SDLP and they are both nationalists.