The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[Ulick]

Well, looking from my own "side", I think it's possible to want to retain the Union without hoping for "a big f**k you" to anyone who wants powers over NI going to Dublin.

Good man MW, that's very noble of you.

[Ulick]

Very little substance there Gallsman. Your suggestion the SDLP are running McKinney in order to represent voters in FST who don't vote SF belies the fact that McKinney doesn't have a hope in hell of winning. By running for the seat the SDLP allow the minority political viewpoint to represent the majority – not exactly representative democracy in action.

Surely by withdrawing in South Belfast, SF are trying to achieve the same?

Indeed but that post was in relation to gallsman introducing 'democracy' to the discussion. Personally that's something I think is over-rated.

[Ulick]

There you go again, I didn't say support for national determination in Ireland was sectarian.  Did I?

I said that getting people's support based on sectarian headcounts is sectarian.  That's what I said, stop trying to twist it.

Getting their support for the position of national self-determination? It's the same thing.

No it's not, the unionists have done what you suggested and are every bit as sectarian in that scenario, I really don't think that supports your argument

What is sectarian about it?

[ardmhachaabu]

Do you even know what the word means Ulick? 

[Ulick]

Do you even know what the word means Ulick?

I do yes, I think I do, but I'm a bit of a stickler of words being used imprecisely so I'm genuinely asking you to explain why maximising strength for a political position that has nothing to do with religion is sectarian.

[Maguire01]

By standing in FST are the SDLP not denying the right of the majority people there to be represented by someone who shares their view?

Absolutely not. If the majority of people in FST think Michelle Gildernew shares their view, they'll vote for her and she'll be elected. The SDLP's standing won't deny Nationalists anything - at the end of the day, the electorare will make the decision.

[Main Street]

I think the SDLP hate Sinn Fein much more than they love their non-sectarian stance, their hate for SF is personal, not political or born out of some non sectarian vision.
When Bobby Sands stood, it took a long time and a lot of pressure to get the SDLP candidate to stand down. Considering the state of affairs then and now, nothing short of a bullet would have got the SDLP to stand down.

But AFAICS, Maskey's withdrawal is a negative, it has the look of a petty retaliation against the SDLP for not agreeing to a unity candidate in F&ST. Maybe there is some longer vision that I don't see.

The 6 counties is a different political theatre. The Unionist parties all have to throw mud at each other in order to get elected to oppose the party that survives the nationalist mud throwing contest.

[Ulick]

Absolutely not. If the majority of people in FST think Michelle Gildernew shares their view, they'll vote for her and she'll be elected. The SDLP's standing won't deny Nationalists anything - at the end of the day, the electorare will make the decision.

Eh? Of course they lose something, they lose representation by someone who reflects their views in favour of someone diametrically opposed to their views.

[Maguire01]

Absolutely not. If the majority of people in FST think Michelle Gildernew shares their view, they'll vote for her and she'll be elected. The SDLP's standing won't deny Nationalists anything - at the end of the day, the electorare will make the decision.

Eh? Of course they lose something, they lose representation by someone who reflects their views in favour of someone diametrically opposed to their views.

They won't! If Michelle Gildernew represents the majority, she will be elected regardless of who else is standing.

[Ulick]

They won't! If Michelle Gildernew represents the majority, she will be elected regardless of who else is standing.

Of course they will. Who said anything about 'represents the majority'? I meant representing the majority viewpoint viewpoint on the national question. It quite obvious if you have two candidates representing that viewpoint who split the vote against a single candidate opposed to it, then the single candidate will get in despite representing the minority viewpoint.

[trileacman]

They won't! If Michelle Gildernew represents the majority, she will be elected regardless of who else is standing.

Of course they will. Who said anything about 'represents the majority'? I meant representing the majority viewpoint viewpoint on the national question. It quite obvious if you have two candidates representing that viewpoint who split the vote against a single candidate opposed to it, then the single candidate will get in despite representing the minority viewpoint.

Well if that is yours and SF's only worry then tell gildernew to stand down and McKinnney will take the seat and "represent the majority viewpoint on the majorty issue for the majority people". Capish?

[Zapatista]

While I disagree with SFs proposal of a pact i fully believe the refusal to accept by the SDLP was on an anyone but a shinner platform.

I fail to see the problem.

No problem. Like I said I didn't agree with it anyway. I was just pointing out that I don't think the SDLP decision was on a moarl basis.

[Gaffer]

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

Tick-tock son.

Apologies, It was directed at Gaffer, so it's of no concern to you. As for whether or not I am a bigot, I can categorically state that I am in no way a bigot and unlike you do not resort to insults in a debate. Perhaps you could explain how I am a bigot??

What was directed at me?

[Maguire01]

They won't! If Michelle Gildernew represents the majority, she will be elected regardless of who else is standing.

Of course they will. Who said anything about 'represents the majority'? I meant representing the majority viewpoint viewpoint on the national question. It quite obvious if you have two candidates representing that viewpoint who split the vote against a single candidate opposed to it, then the single candidate will get in despite representing the minority viewpoint.

Once again, I'll try to make it clear: the electorate will split the vote if they wish, not one party.

And why should people vote on the one constitutional issue? Has the GFA not already determined what's happening in that regard? How will the constitutional issue be impacted by the result of these Westminster elections? Should the electorate's primary concern be the constitutional issue?

And again, I'll ask:
If Rodney Connor is elected, what will we lose from Michelle Gildernew's time in power?
And
What would Michelle Gildernew deliver, if reelected, that she couldn't do as an MLA and Minister?

[Gaffer]

Wonder what Maskey thinks of being told to stand down?

Alex Maskey wasn't told to stand down it was a collective decision by the leadership of the party  which includes Alex Maskey.This was a decision that was taken after nearly two days of deliberations and is an effort the maximise the Republican/Nationalist represention across the North. Yes Alex Maskey and all the Sinn Fein workers in South Belfast are dissappointed that they will not be fighting the election after all the hard work they have been doing in resent months but they except this decision and will now be throwing their weight behind their comrades in North Belfast who are trying to get Gerry Kelly elected.As for this being a sectarian move the big difference we see in the orange order bringing together all shades of Unionism to keep out a Nationalist is when these people get into positions of power they act in a sectarian manner by refusing to share power with the Nationalist Representatives as can been seen in council areas they control {eg Newtownabbey, Lisburn etc;} whereas when the SDLP or Sinn Fein hold the power in other areas they administer that power on an equal basis,this can be seen in council areas right across the North.So for me that what makes the decision in F&ST sectarian and and the decision for Sinn Fein to give the SDLP a free run in SB nonsectarian as we know that at least Alistair McDonnell will work for all his constituents on an equal basis

Let's face it. Everything Sinn Fein do is in the interests of Sinn  Fein, not the broad nationalist community but Sinn Fein.
This is  the same Sinn Fein who chose to have a Unionist Justice Minister over a nationalist one.

Unlike the SDLP who always look out for the interests of nationalism? The SDLP who, as I pointed out on this board before, only supported Sinn Fein in THREE out of EIGHTEEN councils on a motion put forward by SF in these councils to press for more All-Ireland co-operation with the Dublin Government a number of years ago? The same SDLP who in 2006 supported Irish citizens living in the north of Ireland to be subjected to compulsory "British National Identity" scheme? The same SDLP who voted in favour of 28 day detention without trial? The same SDLP who argued for provision for diplock courts in 2006? The same SDLP who in the same year argued in favour of primacy of MI5 in certain cases over a devolved policing system, and who once remarked that they had "no difficulty with a continuing MI5 role" in the north? The same SDLP who regarded Ronnie Flanagan as someone who was trying to "edge policing forward"? The same SDLP who are today assisting the Orange Order in their sectarian pact which aims to secure a unionist MP in a constituency with a maily nationalist population?
If you want to talk about the Justice post, rewind back to May 2006, when Mark Durkan stood in Westminster and said he supported - "the possibility of a single Justice minister to be elected by cross-community support and by parallel consent" . That is EXACTLY what happened, so what are the SDLP now complaining about?

If you dont want a Unionist in FST the answer is simple. Stand Gildernew down so that Nationalistts can support  McKinney and problem is solved.
You seem to care alot about Nationalists. You must therefore have been totally disgusted when Sinn Fein supported the IRA whenever they subjected Nationalists to intimidation, hijackings, threats, blowing up their homes while blowing up police stations, house takeovers etc

Well, are you disgusted, Nally Stand?