The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[Ulick]

Why don't you do the democratic thing Ulick and stick up a quick poll:

Are Sinn Fein being sectarian by withdrawing Alex Maskey from S Belfast?

Yes

No

Not a bad suggestion omagh_gael, but how about:

Is maximising the support for your position on the 'National Question' sectarian?

Yes
No

Are you capable of doing anything without spin?

Erm, if you go back four or five pages you will see that is the proposition I have been discussing - why, what are you discussing?

[Ulick]

Ulick, I have answered your questions each and every time yet when I have asked you this one simple thing you refuse to.

I have given my contribution to the question whether or not the Shinners were being sectarian.  I have said I believe that they were and have asked you several times if you consider them to be sectarain in their actions.  You have so far refused to answer that and now in your characteristic manner you are attempting to patronise me and say that somehow I am sidetracking the 'debate'

You are so full of your own self-importance that you can't see the wood for the trees.

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

[gallsman]

Well Gallsman, I did actually read your response and I also read your point about the Justice position, and gave a response to it with a question which you for some reason have chosen not to answer.

What response?

Where did I talk about justice?

I have a three year old niece who recognises the difference between letters ad words. I'll send you the details of her Montessori if you need some help.

[magickingdom]

Now to get back to the point whether SF are sectarian or not is besides the point. We are discussing whether it is sectarian to put up a single candidate in response to the unionist voting pack in Fermanagh and South Tyrone.Yes it is.  Rather simple really.  If you don't accept it is then I would like to know why

did you consider it sectarian of the conservatives and dup to put up a single candidate?

[Nally Stand]

Well Gallsman, I did actually read your response and I also read your point about the Justice position, and gave a response to it with a question which you for some reason have chosen not to answer.

What response?

Where did I talk about justice?

I have a three year old niece who recognises the difference between letters ad words. I'll send you the details of her Montessori if you need some help.

Where did you talk about the justice position?? When you said "This is  the same Sinn Fein who chose to have a Unionist Justice Minister over a nationalist one". Is the memory fading in you?? To which I responded:
"If you want to talk about the Justice post, rewind back to May 2006, when Mark Durkan stood in Westminster and said he supported - "the possibility of a single Justice minister to be elected by cross-community support and by parallel consent" . That is EXACTLY what happened, so what are the SDLP now complaining about?"

So I was just wondering why you didn't respond.

[ardmhachaabu]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

[gallsman]

Well Gallsman, I did actually read your response and I also read your point about the Justice position, and gave a response to it with a question which you for some reason have chosen not to answer.

What response?

Where did I talk about justice?

I have a three year old niece who recognises the difference between letters ad words. I'll send you the details of her Montessori if you need some help.

Where did you talk about the justice position?? When you said "This is  the same Sinn Fein who chose to have a Unionist Justice Minister over a nationalist one". Is the memory fading in you?? To which I responded:
"If you want to talk about the Justice post, rewind back to May 2006, when Mark Durkan stood in Westminster and said he supported - "the possibility of a single Justice minister to be elected by cross-community support and by parallel consent" . That is EXACTLY what happened, so what are the SDLP now complaining about?"

So I was just wondering why you didn't respond.

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

[ardmhachaabu]

Now to get back to the point whether SF are sectarian or not is besides the point. We are discussing whether it is sectarian to put up a single candidate in response to the unionist voting pack in Fermanagh and South Tyrone.Yes it is.  Rather simple really.  If you don't accept it is then I would like to know why

did you consider it sectarian of the conservatives and dup to put up a single candidate?

Of course 

[magickingdom]

Now to get back to the point whether SF are sectarian or not is besides the point. We are discussing whether it is sectarian to put up a single candidate in response to the unionist voting pack in Fermanagh and South Tyrone.Yes it is.  Rather simple really.  If you don't accept it is then I would like to know why

did you consider it sectarian of the conservatives and dup to put up a single candidate?

Of course 

so would you like them to go on and win the seat for doing that

[Ulick]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

Are you saying that nationalism and republicanism are sectarian ideologies or the tactic of trying to maximise the support for the nationalist/republican position is sectarian? If the latter, please explain the difference to me because I don't get the difference.

[gallsman]

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

Tick-tock son.

[Nally Stand]

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

Tick-tock son.

Apologies, It was directed at Gaffer, so it's of no concern to you. As for whether or not I am a bigot, I can categorically state that I am in no way a bigot and unlike you do not resort to insults in a debate. Perhaps you could explain how I am a bigot??

[Nally Stand]

Son

[ardmhachaabu]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

Are you saying that nationalism and republicanism are sectarian ideologies or the tactic of trying to maximise the support for the nationalist/republican position is sectarian? If the latter, please explain the difference to me because I don't get the difference.

The approach of garnering public support based on sectarian headcounts rather than some sort of proper politics is sectarian.  I think that the SDLP's position is a non-sectarian one.  Pretending that politics in the north has nothing to do with what side of the fence you are on is somewhat naive to say the least Ulick

[armagho9]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

It's not sectarian, it is common sense to try and get someone into a seat (that SF are unlikely to win themselves) that share the same main objective.(ie. A united Ireland).  Nationalists believe in a United Ireland and they should be trying to strengthen their position, if that means using tactical voting or stepping aside then thats what they should do.  If believing in a United Ireland and trying to strengthen nationalism/ republicanism makes someone sectarian, then i'm guilty.  (personally dont regard it as being sectarian)