The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[Nally Stand]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

I wouldn't but then again, I didn't, did I?

I understand it perfectly gallsman. Perhaps you could explain to me how my interpretation is wrong? Or is your bitterness towards SF just preventing you from understanding that voting can also be done tactically? Is is as clear as day that the stoops main motivation in FST is to avoid a republican holding the seat even if that means allowing a tory to hold it. If they did genuinely want a nationalist representing this nationalist constituency, why would they not do as SF did in S.Belfast, and withdraw? Let's not forget that FST is mainly nationalist and the motivations for the unionist pact were purely sectarian as it was instigated by the Orange Order with the aim of securing a unionist MP to represent a majority nationalist area. The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

[Nally Stand]

Has ardmhachaabu run away from another discussion? I wonder why he even bothers to contribute in the first place. 

He's gone to the official launch of his new washing detergent..

[Ulick]

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

The word 'democracy' can mean many different things, I just asking gallsman to clarify his understanding of it and the relevance of it to this situation.

[trileacman]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

Where did I say it was?

[trileacman]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

I wouldn't but then again, I didn't, did I?

The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

When you are reduced to name-calling and mockery then I don't think you can comfortably call anyone "bitter".

[Nally Stand]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

I wouldn't but then again, I didn't, did I?

The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

When you are reduced to name-calling and mockery then I don't think you can comfortably call anyone "bitter".

When you are reduced to avoiding the actual point of my post, I don't think you can be taken seriously.

[gallsman]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

I wouldn't but then again, I didn't, did I?

I understand it perfectly gallsman. Perhaps you could explain to me how my interpretation is wrong? Or is your bitterness towards SF just preventing you from understanding that voting can also be done tactically? Is is as clear as day that the stoops main motivation in FST is to avoid a republican holding the seat even if that means allowing a tory to hold it. If they did genuinely want a nationalist representing this nationalist constituency, why would they not do as SF did in S.Belfast, and withdraw? Let's not forget that FST is mainly nationalist and the motivations for the unionist pact were purely sectarian as it was instigated by the Orange Order with the aim of securing a unionist MP to represent a majority nationalist area. The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

Really? You really want me to point out your erroneous statements?

You think the SDLP want a Unionist elected in FST, and that's why they won't withdraw McKinney? You don't think it has anything to do with their desire to best represent the voters in FST who are unwilling to vote Sinn Fein? SF have shown a blatant desire to follow the UUP and DUP down the same old path where you either vote orange or green. I'm sorry if the SDLP's decision to finally try and rise above all that upsets you. Hang on, I'm not, you're clearly a fool who doesn't have a f**king clue what he's talking about so I've no sympathy for you whatsoever.

SF are seeking to do exactly what the DUP and UUP are, yet you're so blinded you can't even see it. Otherwise you just don't care, because it's "our" side, which would make you a bigot.

Are you a bigot NS?

[Zapatista]

SF are seeking to do exactly what the DUP and UUP are, yet you're so blinded you can't even see it. Otherwise you just don't care, because it's "our" side, which would make you a bigot.

Are you a bigot NS?

The example I linked to above suggests different. The SDLP were only intrerested in isolating SF in that case. In this case though I think SFmade the wrong move.

[Ulick]

Really? You really want me to point out your erroneous statements?

You think the SDLP want a Unionist elected in FST, and that's why they won't withdraw McKinney? You don't think it has anything to do with their desire to best represent the voters in FST who are unwilling to vote Sinn Fein? SF have shown a blatant desire to follow the UUP and DUP down the same old path where you either vote orange or green. I'm sorry if the SDLP's decision to finally try and rise above all that upsets you. Hang on, I'm not, you're clearly a fool who doesn't have a f**king clue what he's talking about so I've no sympathy for you whatsoever.

SF are seeking to do exactly what the DUP and UUP are, yet you're so blinded you can't even see it. Otherwise you just don't care, because it's "our" side, which would make you a bigot.

Are you a bigot NS?

Very little substance there Gallsman. Your suggestion the SDLP are running McKinney in order to represent voters in FST who don't vote SF belies the fact that McKinney doesn't have a hope in hell of winning. By running for the seat the SDLP allow the minority political viewpoint to represent the majority – not exactly representative democracy in action.

[Nally Stand]

Thought it was an inspired move from a SF perspective. Win win you could say.

One one hand, if the stoops had bowed under the pressure and withdrew McKinney, then SF could have been confident of holding FST.
On the other hand, if (as it turned out to be the case) the stoops still refused to withdraw McKinney, it shows up the SDLP's narrow mindedness and the fact that they genuinely would prefer a tory repesenting a mainly nationalist area than a Sinn Fein candidate at any cost.

Just when you think they can stoop no lower...

Ridiculous statement to make.

Do you actually understand the concept of democracy???

What has the FST election got to do with democracy?

Are you being serious? What does an election have to do with democracy?

You can hardly call the actions of the Tories, UUP, DUP, TUV and Orange Order the act of democracy in F/ST.

I wouldn't but then again, I didn't, did I?

I understand it perfectly gallsman. Perhaps you could explain to me how my interpretation is wrong? Or is your bitterness towards SF just preventing you from understanding that voting can also be done tactically? Is is as clear as day that the stoops main motivation in FST is to avoid a republican holding the seat even if that means allowing a tory to hold it. If they did genuinely want a nationalist representing this nationalist constituency, why would they not do as SF did in S.Belfast, and withdraw? Let's not forget that FST is mainly nationalist and the motivations for the unionist pact were purely sectarian as it was instigated by the Orange Order with the aim of securing a unionist MP to represent a majority nationalist area. The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

Really? You really want me to point out your erroneous statements?

You think the SDLP want a Unionist elected in FST, and that's why they won't withdraw McKinney? You don't think it has anything to do with their desire to best represent the voters in FST who are unwilling to vote Sinn Fein? SF have shown a blatant desire to follow the UUP and DUP down the same old path where you either vote orange or green. I'm sorry if the SDLP's decision to finally try and rise above all that upsets you. Hang on, I'm not, you're clearly a fool who doesn't have a f**king clue what he's talking about so I've no sympathy for you whatsoever.

SF are seeking to do exactly what the DUP and UUP are, yet you're so blinded you can't even see it. Otherwise you just don't care, because it's "our" side, which would make you a bigot.

Are you a bigot NS?

And now you resort to personal attacks? How mature of you Gallsman. Now how about we try to be realistic?? The SDLP know as well as you and I know, that they never stood a chance in FST, so to say they were standing in order to best represent people there is a non starter of an argument. What, as I already explained is bigoted, is the Orange Order making it's input to attempt to manipulate unionist parties to join together to take a seat where the majority community doesn't want them. The people in FST are now being shoe horned by the Orange Order/Unionist Party block and now with SDLP assistance, into having a unionist MP. No amount of fairytale thinking can deny the fact that SF were the only party which could realistically hope to defeat this sectarian electoral pact.
As I mentioned earlier, I am fiercely anti-sectarian. I couldn't give a toss what faith anyone belongs too, I am speaking from the viewpoint of who would provide the best representation to the area based on the predominant political views of those living there. I am not however naive enough to think that the POLITICAL divide that exists here actually doesn't exist. Having a political view that differs from another is not bigoted.

[ardmhachaabu]

Has ardmhachaabu run away from another discussion? I wonder why he even bothers to contribute in the first place. 

I have what's called a life Ulick unlike you or some others on here.

Your question was about what the Shinners are at, don't put Tone or any other decent man in the same bracket as them

[Gaffer]

Wonder what Maskey thinks of being told to stand down?

Alex Maskey wasn't told to stand down it was a collective decision by the leadership of the party  which includes Alex Maskey.This was a decision that was taken after nearly two days of deliberations and is an effort the maximise the Republican/Nationalist represention across the North. Yes Alex Maskey and all the Sinn Fein workers in South Belfast are dissappointed that they will not be fighting the election after all the hard work they have been doing in resent months but they except this decision and will now be throwing their weight behind their comrades in North Belfast who are trying to get Gerry Kelly elected.As for this being a sectarian move the big difference we see in the orange order bringing together all shades of Unionism to keep out a Nationalist is when these people get into positions of power they act in a sectarian manner by refusing to share power with the Nationalist Representatives as can been seen in council areas they control {eg Newtownabbey, Lisburn etc;} whereas when the SDLP or Sinn Fein hold the power in other areas they administer that power on an equal basis,this can be seen in council areas right across the North.So for me that what makes the decision in F&ST sectarian and and the decision for Sinn Fein to give the SDLP a free run in SB nonsectarian as we know that at least Alistair McDonnell will work for all his constituents on an equal basis

Let's face it. Everything Sinn Fein do is in the interests of Sinn  Fein, not the broad nationalist community but Sinn Fein.
This is  the same Sinn Fein who chose to have a Unionist Justice Minister over a nationalist one.

[Maguire01]

Fortunately I'm missing a lot of this election banter with very little Internet access at the minute.

Interestingly, I read the following in last Saturday's Irish News where SF Cllr O'Reilly said of Rodney Connor's retirement from Fermanagh DC:
"As Chief Executive, people always had a hotline to his office on all manner of issues. He always has done his best and everyone got a fair share when it came to getting their needs met. I wish him well in the future."

With an endorsement like that, what's to worry about! 

Also, on all seriousness, what has Gildernew done for Nationalists/Republicans that:
a) Rodney Connor won't; or
b) That Michelle Gildernew can't continue to do as MLA and Minister?


Also, have to agree that McKinney was very poor on the Politics Show. How much that will effect him is hard to tell.
At the end of the day though, the electorate will effectively decide whether they want a single Nationalist candidate.

[ardmhachaabu]

While I disagree with SFs proposal of a pact i fully believe the refusal to accept by the SDLP was on an anyone but a shinner platform.

I fail to see the problem. 

[gallsman]

Really? You really want me to point out your erroneous statements?

You think the SDLP want a Unionist elected in FST, and that's why they won't withdraw McKinney? You don't think it has anything to do with their desire to best represent the voters in FST who are unwilling to vote Sinn Fein? SF have shown a blatant desire to follow the UUP and DUP down the same old path where you either vote orange or green. I'm sorry if the SDLP's decision to finally try and rise above all that upsets you. Hang on, I'm not, you're clearly a fool who doesn't have a f**king clue what he's talking about so I've no sympathy for you whatsoever.

SF are seeking to do exactly what the DUP and UUP are, yet you're so blinded you can't even see it. Otherwise you just don't care, because it's "our" side, which would make you a bigot.

Are you a bigot NS?

Very little substance there Gallsman. Your suggestion the SDLP are running McKinney in order to represent voters in FST who don't vote SF belies the fact that McKinney doesn't have a hope in hell of winning. By running for the seat the SDLP allow the minority political viewpoint to represent the majority – not exactly representative democracy in action.

Little substance me hole. They're doing what any political party should do and stand in every constituency. Why should any SDLP voters in FST vote for SF if McKinney was to stand down? Just because Gildernew is one of us instead of those nasty unionists? My point is that shouldn't be the mindset of people. If the SDLP vote is significant enough to hurt Gildernew, why should they abandon their voters to the mercy of a sectarian dogfight?

NS, if you get offended by someone calling you a fool, enjoy your life. There won't be much of one if you keep getting het up. When did I say the SDLP were standing to best represent the whole population of FST. SF have won every election and increased their vote since 2001, so to suggest this would be ludicrous. What I said was that the SDLP have a significant vote in FST who they are unwilling to abandon. Where's the shame in that? The whole point of this is that we're supposed to be moving beyond green and orange but some people are unwilling. The Assembly elections are where the action is. Who care's who the f**k wins FST, it's not as if Gildernew sits in the first place, so to say she "represents" voters is slightly skewed.