International Rules 2010/2011

[qz]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

[Hardy]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

[Logan]

Tohill will have to be picking squads for the international rules shortly won't he?

[qz]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

[stephenite]

I agree QZ, the notion that amateur's=good manly players that all shake hands after the game and go for pints VS Bad inbred convicts who get paid too much and rape girls whilst high 5'ing their team mates wears pretty thin. While I can understand why Hardy has the impression of the pseudo-macho stuff it's no worse then I've seen in Junior club games in Mayo.

I enjoy the spectacle, but I go to AFL games regularly so I'm probably biased.


Edit: Just realised that you've highlighted 2 Meath "incidents" in your Youtube clips
* Backs slowly out of the room *

[Hardy]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

[stephenite]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

I don't necessarily disagree that your opinion is wrong per se, that culture of yahooing the biggest hit from behind is still there to a certain extent. But of the games I've attended with those who are more familair with the game (I'm based in Sydney and it's not the "local" sport) it's frowned upon, massively.

But I still maintain that this culture also exists in our own games to a certain extent, perhaps not as much. I remember all too well the deafening roars of approval that went up went Meath and Mayo went head to head in '96 and that was not just us savages from the West. It happens in club games too.

The Aussie players have always maintained that the Irish amateurs were far more cynical and sneaky in getting the digs in, kicking at the ball as they went down to scoop it up etc, this is a huge no no in AFL as the player is unprotected. Of course when the reverse is applied to the tackle and turning players into the ground, a la Geraghty, they maintain a blank innocent stare and say this happens very week.

Slightly off the point but I work with a Kiwi and he's constantly ribbing me about the O'Driscoll spear tackle and how we should 'man up' it's all workplace slagging in intent, however when there was a similair incident in the Super 14 this year involving one of his beloved Canterbury Crusaders he was thick as a bull for a week, I mentioned that it was nowhere near as bad as what his boys did Brian O'Driscoll, we looked at the Youtube clips comparing the incidents - he couldn't see it, point is, we see what we our brains want us to see.

To the concept of the games, I'm a fan, if only for the selfish reason that it gives me a pass down to Melbourne or over to Perth to watch some of the GAA players in action for a few days. And if it satisfies the players and a couple of thousand ex-pats, what's the harm?

[Jinxy]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

I don't necessarily disagree that your opinion is wrong per se, that culture of yahooing the biggest hit from behind is still there to a certain extent. But of the games I've attended with those who are more familair with the game (I'm based in Sydney and it's not the "local" sport) it's frowned upon, massively.

But I still maintain that this culture also exists in our own games to a certain extent, perhaps not as much. I remember all too well the deafening roars of approval that went up went Meath and Mayo went head to head in '96 and that was not just us savages from the West. It happens in club games too.

The Aussie players have always maintained that the Irish amateurs were far more cynical and sneaky in getting the digs in, kicking at the ball as they went down to scoop it up etc, this is a huge no no in AFL as the player is unprotected. Of course when the reverse is applied to the tackle and turning players into the ground, a la Geraghty, they maintain a blank innocent stare and say this happens very week.

Slightly off the point but I work with a Kiwi and he's constantly ribbing me about the O'Driscoll spear tackle and how we should 'man up' it's all workplace slagging in intent, however when there was a similair incident in the Super 14 this year involving one of his beloved Canterbury Crusaders he was thick as a bull for a week, I mentioned that it was nowhere near as bad as what his boys did Brian O'Driscoll, we looked at the Youtube clips comparing the incidents - he couldn't see it, point is, we see what we our brains want us to see.

To the concept of the games, I'm a fan, if only for the selfish reason that it gives me a pass down to Melbourne or over to Perth to watch some of the GAA players in action for a few days. And if it satisfies the players and a couple of thousand ex-pats, what's the harm?

I doubt it has anything to do with being unprotected.
I've seen numerous players being deliberately hurt in the AFL when they were unable to protect themselves.

[AZOffaly]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

Hardy, I think you should look at the clips.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

I don't necessarily disagree that your opinion is wrong per se, that culture of yahooing the biggest hit from behind is still there to a certain extent. But of the games I've attended with those who are more familair with the game (I'm based in Sydney and it's not the "local" sport) it's frowned upon, massively.

But I still maintain that this culture also exists in our own games to a certain extent, perhaps not as much. I remember all too well the deafening roars of approval that went up went Meath and Mayo went head to head in '96 and that was not just us savages from the West. It happens in club games too.

The Aussie players have always maintained that the Irish amateurs were far more cynical and sneaky in getting the digs in, kicking at the ball as they went down to scoop it up etc, this is a huge no no in AFL as the player is unprotected. Of course when the reverse is applied to the tackle and turning players into the ground, a la Geraghty, they maintain a blank innocent stare and say this happens very week.

Slightly off the point but I work with a Kiwi and he's constantly ribbing me about the O'Driscoll spear tackle and how we should 'man up' it's all workplace slagging in intent, however when there was a similair incident in the Super 14 this year involving one of his beloved Canterbury Crusaders he was thick as a bull for a week, I mentioned that it was nowhere near as bad as what his boys did Brian O'Driscoll, we looked at the Youtube clips comparing the incidents - he couldn't see it, point is, we see what we our brains want us to see.

To the concept of the games, I'm a fan, if only for the selfish reason that it gives me a pass down to Melbourne or over to Perth to watch some of the GAA players in action for a few days. And if it satisfies the players and a couple of thousand ex-pats, what's the harm?

I doubt it has anything to do with being unprotected.
I've seen numerous players being deliberately hurt in the AFL when they were unable to protect themselves.

It is to do with being unprotected....the concept of kicking at the ball when someone puts their hands down is a total no-no over here.....It's the same as when Setanta knocked Cloke out in the club challenge game they didn't mind about the knockout punch but  tolerate teh kick to him on the ground....

[Croí na hÉireann]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

Hardy, I think you should look at the clips.

The eyes man, the eyes... 

[Hardy]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

Hardy, I think you should look at the clips.

I think  can rest my case if the best he can come up with is a fella spraining his ankle and an accidental minor scratch (kilometres of subsequently applied bandage notwithstanding).

[Jinxy]

Some interesting points Hardy, I'd be  curious to hear your thoughts on what aspects of AFL, their supporters treasure, that GAA fans mightn't necessarily treasure.

What I had in mind was all the pseudo-macho stuff - "big hits" and how they're gloried in and all the would-be hard man strutting and posing and the general impression that they value power, strength and hard-chaw stuff more than skill and technique.

I was always put off by the glorification of cowardly blind-side hitting that seems endemic in their game. I don't know if it's changed as I haven't watched it in a good while and I hear they've cleaned it up a bit, but you used to hear their commentators and spectators screaming approval at what they'd call a big hit but was usually some fella being taken out in sneaky fashion when he wasn't looking or shouldered into the front when he was open for it. That kind of stuff is actually some of the most cowardly hitting you can do, as you protect yourself while exploiting the victim's unpreparedness. I'd call a man hard if he exposed himself to hurt - e.g. face his opponent front-to-front. If you turn your shoulder into the opponent's exposed front when he's not ready for it, you're a coward, not a hard man.

Anyway, what I was suggesting was that in as much as you can generalise, GAA people appreciate skill, sportsmanship and technique more than strength, power and hitting and AFL supporters are the opposite.

As well as that, I've always been taken with the contrast in how the Australian and Irish teams in IR conduct themselves. The Aussie players come across as brash, self-absorbed, cocky and bombastic while the GAA player's stock in trade is typically understatement, self-effacement and modesty. It's just an impression, but it's an impression of two sporting cultures entirely at variance with each other.

There's a few cowards in the GAA to I'd say you agree then, like the no. 9 on 2 minutes in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAQbp_vRv4&NR=1

or the defender in this clip holding a man down, then standing on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdB0RCtDe8

The Afl fans love their skill as much as we do, especially a great high mark or a long distance kick between the posts, much the same as ourselves. The similarities in what fans treasure are closer than what you suggest, i think. 

Our opinions differ - no issue. I didn't bother looking at your clips as, if they're presented as instances of something untoward in GAA games, I don't see their relevance to my suggestion that the incidence of this type of thing is higher in AFL and that the AFL fans seem to like it. The murder rate in Johannesburg is greater than that in Cork. I wouldn't attempt to disprove that by posting two links to news stories showing there had been two murders in Cork at some stage or another.

Stephenite - my substantive point is that the cowardly hits and thuggery are (or were when I was more familiar with it) glorified in the AFL culture, by fans and commentators. You must have noticed the roaring approval by commentators at "shirtfronts" and you won't have to look long at clips of the International Rules games to hear the Aussie commentators getting orgasmic over the street-fighting when it starts.

I don't necessarily disagree that your opinion is wrong per se, that culture of yahooing the biggest hit from behind is still there to a certain extent. But of the games I've attended with those who are more familair with the game (I'm based in Sydney and it's not the "local" sport) it's frowned upon, massively.

But I still maintain that this culture also exists in our own games to a certain extent, perhaps not as much. I remember all too well the deafening roars of approval that went up went Meath and Mayo went head to head in '96 and that was not just us savages from the West. It happens in club games too.

The Aussie players have always maintained that the Irish amateurs were far more cynical and sneaky in getting the digs in, kicking at the ball as they went down to scoop it up etc, this is a huge no no in AFL as the player is unprotected. Of course when the reverse is applied to the tackle and turning players into the ground, a la Geraghty, they maintain a blank innocent stare and say this happens very week.

Slightly off the point but I work with a Kiwi and he's constantly ribbing me about the O'Driscoll spear tackle and how we should 'man up' it's all workplace slagging in intent, however when there was a similair incident in the Super 14 this year involving one of his beloved Canterbury Crusaders he was thick as a bull for a week, I mentioned that it was nowhere near as bad as what his boys did Brian O'Driscoll, we looked at the Youtube clips comparing the incidents - he couldn't see it, point is, we see what we our brains want us to see.

To the concept of the games, I'm a fan, if only for the selfish reason that it gives me a pass down to Melbourne or over to Perth to watch some of the GAA players in action for a few days. And if it satisfies the players and a couple of thousand ex-pats, what's the harm?

I doubt it has anything to do with being unprotected.
I've seen numerous players being deliberately hurt in the AFL when they were unable to protect themselves.

It is to do with being unprotected....the concept of kicking at the ball when someone puts their hands down is a total no-no over here.....It's the same as when Setanta knocked Cloke out in the club challenge game they didn't mind about the knockout punch but  tolerate teh kick to him on the ground....

And yet they'll happily nail someone who only has eyes for the ball when they are running back with the play.
Or put their knee into someones kidneys.
I've no interest in their bizarre code of honour to be honest.

[HeaveHo]

Some distorted views on the AFL here.

Kicking, gouging, ankle tackles or taps, dropping knees in tackles have, since the inception of AFL, been considered poor form in AFL and will result in long suspensions.

The shirt front has virtually been eliminated from AFL - if your eyes are not on the ball and you shirtfront a player expect 3-4 weeks off. 

[paco]

Did anyone see the classic International Rules on TG4 yesterday? Not sure what year it was, but Dermot Mc Nicholl was playing and he was fantastic. The Australians seem to have learned a bit since then as they were awful at kicking the round ball.