Northern Ireland Assembly Collapses

[BennyHarp]

If the assembly collapses i assume all pay for MLA's (including expenses!) will be suspended immediately too! The majority of people elected to these positions where never fit for the jobs they were given anyway!

[Zapatista]

If the assembly collapses i assume all pay for MLA's (including expenses!) will be suspended immediately too! The majority of people elected to these positions where never fit for the jobs they were given anyway!

That could be a lose lose situation. I would hate to think that my MLA might be give in easily on negotiations (in particular re policing and Justice but also on Parades) in order to save their own paycheck.

[Denn Forever]

They have adjourned and Gordon is waiting around.  Feeling of Deja Vu from the GFA talks.  Here is what BBC are reporting.

Overnight talks aimed at averting the collapse of Northern Ireland's power-sharing coalition have adjourned.

Sinn Fein and the DUP have been at loggerheads over the devolution of policing and justice powers.

The British and Irish prime ministers were locked in meetings until shortly after 0600 GMT on Wednesday.

A Downing Street spokesman said "there is scope for agreement" though the Irish government cautioned that "some outstanding issues remain".

Sinn Fein and the Democratic Unionist Party - Northern Ireland's two biggest political parties - have been arguing for months over the transfer of policing and justice powers from Westminster to Stormont.

Sinn Fein wants the completion of devolution to happen as soon as possible, but the DUP argues there must be unionist "community confidence" before powers are put in the hands of local politicians..

ANALYSIS



Mark Devenport, BBC NI political editor
We still know what the bare bones of any possible deal will be.


It involves Sinn Fein getting their date for the transfer of justice powers, getting it this side of the election, and it involves some new structures for parading to deal with the DUPs concerns on that front.

At about 2100 GMT on Tuesday we were beginning to get indications of a very good mood. The plenary session had gone very well.

But during the course of the night, things went much cooler when they start getting into the detail.

Gordon Brown has important engagements. He is meant to be meeting President Karzai of Afghanistan later, so he could be leaving late afternoon and handing it over to Secretary of State Shaun Woodward.

The big question that raises is will that be enough for Sinn Fein or will they feel this is a breakdown?
Q&A: Breakthrough or breakdown?
Mark Devenport's blog

The "confidence" issue causing most division is over the handling of parades.

The DUP wants to scrap the Parades Commission, which puts conditions on some of the most contentious marches, but Sinn Fein has accused the party of giving the Orange Order a talks veto.

BBC NI political editor Mark Devenport said that, while the mood had looked "good" at teatime on Tuesday, "during the course of the night things went much cooler when they started getting into the detail".

"The question is now, is it an adjournment or is it a breakdown?"

'Determination'

Talks are due to resume mid-morning and Downing Street has said that Gordon Brown will remain in NI and miss prime minister's questions at Westminster.

A Downing Street spokesman said Harriet Harman would deputise for Mr Brown.

Leaving at 0430 GMT, Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey said there was "no final agreement" yet, but he expected a government statement "fairly shortly".

As he left, Alliance Party leader David Ford - widely tipped to become the Stormont justice minister if the transfer of powers from Westminster can be agreed - said: "It is clear that there is ongoing work happening in the building."

He added that there was an "an air of determination to proceed with the business".

On Tuesday, Mr Brown and Brian Cowen chaired meetings and began more talks with representatives from the individual parties

NI Secretary Shaun Woodward said there was a "willingness to make progress".


David Ford could become Stormont's justice minister if a deal is struck
Mr Woodward said all of Northern Ireland's party leaders had been able to contribute their views at a round-table session.

"There's a real spirit of cooperation, I think, a real willingness to want to make progress, to recognise just what is at stake in the talks.

"I think it was a very constructive hour-and-a-quarter, there's real progress that can be made and we remain standing ready to help the parties in any way we can."

Irish foreign minister Micheal Martin said: "It was a very constructive meeting and I think the taoiseach and prime minister are clear there is a real willingness to make progress on resolving the outstanding issues, and also to facilitate a new dynamic within the executive."

'Reality check'

SDLP leader Mark Durkan said: "One of the significant things is that increasingly all parties are admitting devolution has not been performing in a very credible and effective way.

"Maybe that reality check is a good point for progress from here."

The talks began on Monday in an attempt to find agreement on the issues.

Mr Brown and Mr Cowen arrived in Belfast on Monday and held late-night discussions with both parties.

The leaders also held private talks on Tuesday morning before meeting the parties.

Talks between the DUP and Sinn Fein had intensified in recent weeks, before collapsing in acrimony last week.

If Sinn Fein were to decide Martin McGuinness should resign as deputy first minister, the joint nature of the roles of first and deputy first ministers would mean that DUP leader Peter Robinson would also be forced out of office, collapsing the executive.

[full back]

If these boyos realise they wont be getting their wee perks or their salaries anymore they will pull their horns in & agree to what ever they are told

[Zapatista]

If these boyos realise they wont be getting their wee perks or their salaries anymore they will pull their horns in & agree to what ever they are told

Would that be worth it? I don't whant them to agree for whatever they are told. It would make no sense. If you think they are getting paid for doing nothing now you would be sure of it if they were being paid to agree.

[Orior]

There are a lot of dumbasses in the occupied six who compare the GAA to the Orange Order.

Has anyone ever heard of the GAA calling together politicians of a certain persuasion to band against the enemy (both ethnic and religious)?

[Zapatista]

There are a lot of dumbasses in the occupied six who compare the GAA to the Orange Order.

It isn't dumb. They know only too well what they are doing. Don't underestimate them.

[ha ha derry]

If the assembly collapses will we be any worse off ? I personally don,t think so. What has this devolved governmet done for us ?

[Zapatista]

What about me?

[lynchbhoy]

so the dup's trump card is to throw the orange order/parades commission whinge as some kind of big issue that needs resolving?

So one bone of contention is the policing reform and ongoing problems, the other is an 'issue' about triumphalist marching around the roads for a couple of monthsof the year.
I am surprised that they didnt thow in 'mandatory poppy wearing' for two months of the year as an issue also.


I have a solution. Ban ALL parades. Allow bands and oo bigots to meet in their fields to play and cavort.
If this means St Patricks day 'parades' are also banned - then so be it.

The Irish Gov should then likewise ban the oo parades in Donegal/cavan and wherever else.

maybe this will have a galvanising effect on both sides flute bands etc but it might overcome the current impasse.
Though I have to say I some what agree with Ha Ha - what has the current iteration of local gov done ?

I'd prefer joint rule between london and Dublin !!

[full back]

I have a solution. Ban ALL parades. Allow bands and oo bigots to meet in their fields to play and cavort.
If this means St Patricks day 'parades' are also banned - then so be it.

Would alternating the parades/marches be an option?
March this year, not the next etc

[lynchbhoy]

I have a solution. Ban ALL parades. Allow bands and oo bigots to meet in their fields to play and cavort.
If this means St Patricks day 'parades' are also banned - then so be it.

Would alternating the parades/marches be an option?
March this year, not the next etc

it it meant keeping the oo bigoted sectarians off the streets at long last - I'd want it every year !
hopefully when their older more bigoted sectarians die off in the next fes years, the oo will go the way of the AOH and exist but so small and insignificant they wont bother anyone.

the marching def stokes up the fires of unionist/loyalists and doesnt help things in the six counties. A ban imo would be a great move towards normality.

[thebigfella]

If policing and justice does get transfered, I'm assuming it all has to be paid out of the Assembly finances? Should the Assembly and effectively the taxpayers be responsible for paying for the policing of the parades? Does the OO ever contribute to the extra policing costs occurred?

I for one am sick of it and actually am verging on the point of hoping it all fails. All the little secret meetings/deals between the DUP, UUP, Conservatives and OO have shown that things are not as far forward as we are all led to believe. Fcuk the lot of them.

[A Quinn Martin Production]

I hope the whole shebang goes down the toilet.  I never thought I'd say it but direct rule is better than devolution...bring back Articles 2 & 3!!

[Nally Stand]

It does show the old unionist domination agenda is alive and well with co-operation between their main parties and the oo. It seems that SF are genuinely playing hardball with them and I sincerely hope they continue to do so and not make undue compromise for the sake of a deal, even if it means a collapse. If it does collapse, SF will clean up in a new election anyway.