Is this letter not libellous?

[muppet]

what does that mean? I didn't libel GA, I merely pointed out that someone did and its analogous to referring to the letter to an acquaintance by word of mouth!

No it's not. Publishing something on another public medium is not the same as word of mouth.

[T Fearon]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

[muppet]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

If that was the case why did the Lawlor friend in the car sue multiple publications and not just the origin of the story?

[Myles Na G.]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

You speak as if he's some ordinary Joe who just happens to be the subject of some scurrilous rumours. He isn't. He was / is a leading figure in a movement responsible for the deaths of many hundreds of people. The fact that he's never faced a court of law for this says more about the machiavellian nature of local politics than it does about his guilt or innocence. Gerry won't sue for the simple reason that he's too many skeletons in the cupboard and he'd rather they stayed there.

[T Fearon]

By that token , you could say that many political leaders were responsible for the murders of thousands of people, Bush, Blair etc. However the letter writer specifcially infers that Adams personally planned and orchestrated murders. It is my contention that there is no hard evidence to support this specific allegation,and therefore it is libellous.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

By that token , you could say that many political leaders were responsible for the murders of thousands of people, Bush, Blair etc. However the letter writer specifcially infers that Adams personally planned and orchestrated murders. It is my contention that there is no hard evidence to support this specific allegation,and therefore it is libellous.

A yes Gerry Innocent Adams 

[Puckoon]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

Gerry has his own problems going on right now, and Im sure the heartfelt desires of a sectarian bigot such as your good self would be well down his list of priorities.

[Evil Genius]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

Total balls.

A (written) comment is only libellous when a Court of Law deems it to be so i.e. the burden of proof for libel is on the plaintiff, not the defendant.

Therefore, you may make any comment you like, assuming you can find a publication to print it.

Of course, should a publication consider a comment is possibly/likely going to attract a successful libel action by the subject, then it (publication) will decline to print it.

Imo it is highly significant that the Belfast Telegraph was evidently happy to take the risk in this case i.e. they must be extremely confident that they could defend any lawsuit brought by Adams.

And speaking of defences, there is a well-known legal maxim that "Fair comment is not actionable" i.e. if you can prove what you have said to be true.

In a case such as this, the easiest way of doing so would be to produce credible evidence or witnesses to back up the assertion.

For evidence, I suggest the BT might rely on such as the following:


And for witnesses, they might eg refer to the Daily Telegraph, which on 16 March 2001 carried a report, based on an article in the Irish Echo, about a statement by Dolours Price.  She was at a republican ceremony in Ballina, County Mayo, in February 2001, to mark the 25th anniversary of the death of IRA hunger striker Frank Stagg. 
The Irish Echo said, 'Price had asked to speak because, she siad, like Stagg, both she and her sister had endured a hunger strike in 1973 and 1974.  Witnesses say she discarded her script and said she would 'speak from the heart'.
She then attacked high-ranking members of Sinn Fein who now dissociate themselves from the IRA. According to Ruairi O Bradaigh, the president of Republican Sinn Fein, who attended the event, she said that it was 'too much' to listen to people now saying they weren't in the IRA. Ms Price said: 'Gerry Adams was my commanding officer.'

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

I, too, would love to see Adams bring such a case, but for rather different reasons from yours...

P.S. I shall return to the other Adams thread when I get time (and hopefully at an earlier hour)

[ardmhachaabu]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

Gerry has his own problems going on right now, and Im sure the heartfelt desires of a sectarian bigot such as your good self would be well down his list of priorities.

Well said

[Main Street]

Adams has been quoted as saying
"To be libelled, means that in some way you are seen as being disreputable by your friends and associates, so the allegation about IRA membership, that has been consistently denied, may not be the most offensive and outrageous allegation which he has made."

IRA membership is not a matter of disrepute.

[Evil Genius]

Adams has been quoted as saying
"To be libelled, means that in some way you are seen as being disreputable by your friends and associates, so the allegation about IRA membership, that has been consistently denied, may not be the most offensive and outrageous allegation which he has made."

Gerry Adams might not find it "offensive" to be labelled a member of the IRA. However, he would presumably take exception to being labelled a liar. And considering that he has always consistently and publicly denied his IRA membership, when such a denial is palpably and demonstrably false, then that is what he most certainly is.

May I expect a lawsuit from him, on the basis that I am calling him a liar? 

IRA membership is not a matter of disrepute.

Perhaps not in the sick world which you appear to inhabit, but there are plenty others who would disagree, including for instance, this brave and principled man who died on Boxing Day:

IRA murder bid magistrate, Tom Travers, dies  


Tom Travers with his daughter Mary

A magistrate who survived an IRA murder attempt 25 years ago in which his daughter was killed has died.

Tom Travers died peacefully on Boxing Day at his home in Holywood, County Down.

In April 1984, he was shot six times by the IRA as he left Mass at St Brigid's Church in south Belfast with his wife and daughter.

He was seriously injured but his daughter Mary, a schoolteacher, was fatally wounded.

Mr Travers was unable to attend his daughter's funeral because he was still in the intensive care unit of Belfast City Hospital.

In January, the Police Ombudsman's office apologised to Mr Travers for errors in a report into the murder.



Gerry Adams makes great play of his religious faith. Considering he was a (the?) senior IRA man in Belfast at the time of this muderous attack on fellow devout Roman Catholics, committed as they returned home from Mass, I wonder did he have to spend extra time in the Confessional Box that weekend? 

[Main Street]

If Gerry did indeed organise all he was supposed to have organised on behalf of Irish Republicanism then he would be on an active par with the great (ever elusive) Michael Collins.

My world is a healthy enough world which can rise above the labels of blame from the self righteous, those who steadfastly believe they are right, their war right and the other side wrong.

I certainly have no problem with the honourable tradition of Fenianism and Republicanism, right through to the recent times.

[Puckoon]

No problem? At all?

Right through Enniskillen?
Omagh?
Jean McConville?
The corporals killings?

The list is endless.

Fenianism and Republicanism are one thing - terrorism is another altogether - and if you can see "honour" in any of the above, it is a sad indication.

Membership of an organisation which has planned and carried out, and then protected people who committed acts like this should most certainly be a matter of disrepute.

[ardmhachaabu]

Puckoon you have only touched the surface there, they also engaged in the noble tactic of strapping people to bombs.  Personally, anyone who uses a gun/bomb to kill another person or elicits another to do so for whatever the reason is just scum.  I don't care if their reason is to 'free Ireland' or to protect the 6 counties from being subsumed by the other 26.  They are scum.

[pintsofguinness]

No problem? At all?

Right through Enniskillen?
Omagh?
Jean McConville?
The corporals killings?

The list is endless.

Fenianism and Republicanism are one thing - terrorism is another altogether - and if you can see "honour" in any of the above, it is a sad indication.

Membership of an organisation which has planned and carried out, and then protected people who committed acts like this should most certainly be a matter of disrepute.

Sure everyone should have lay down and been walked across puck. I wonder what the world would be like today if no one, anywhere fought back.