Is this letter not libellous?

[Puckoon]

Why isn't it honourable puck? Because of some inexcusable incidents?  Inexcusable incidents happen in all wars, all armies have their scumbags.  That doesnt make those incidents acceptable of course.

Paul Quinn's death had nothing to do with the IRA,  neither did they fella stabbed at magennises - just scumbags and criminals hiding behind a name.

Successfully hiding behind a name pints. One that Main Street and evidently yourself think is a name to be proud of.

[ardmhachaabu]

Why isn't it honourable puck? Because of some inexcusable incidents?  Inexcusable incidents happen in all wars, all armies have their scumbags.  That doesnt make those incidents acceptable of course.

Paul Quinn's death had nothing to do with the IRA,  neither did they fella stabbed at magennises - just scumbags and criminals hiding behind a name.

Bullshit pints.  It was 'RA who did the cover-up and clean-up in Magennises from the scrubbing to the CCTV being taken out.

[pintsofguinness]

Why isn't it honourable puck? Because of some inexcusable incidents?  Inexcusable incidents happen in all wars, all armies have their scumbags.  That doesnt make those incidents acceptable of course.

Paul Quinn's death had nothing to do with the IRA,  neither did they fella stabbed at magennises - just scumbags and criminals hiding behind a name.

Successfully hiding behind a name pints. One that Main Street and evidently yourself think is a name to be proud of.

Yes, hiding behind a name.  I don't think I'd use proud, but why should we be ashamed?  Should south africans be ashamed of the ANC?

[pintsofguinness]

Why isn't it honourable puck? Because of some inexcusable incidents?  Inexcusable incidents happen in all wars, all armies have their scumbags.  That doesnt make those incidents acceptable of course.

Paul Quinn's death had nothing to do with the IRA,  neither did they fella stabbed at magennises - just scumbags and criminals hiding behind a name.

Bullshit pints.  It was 'RA who did the cover-up and clean-up in Magennises from the scrubbing to the CCTV being taken out.

Ceasefire soldiers ard, silly little pricks who think they are something but were very quiet when there was fighting going on.  They're not the IRA, there is no longer an IRA. 


I'll put it like this ard....it's like a priest sexually abusing someone and saying to that person if you complain or report me I'll have you excommunicated, you'll go to hell etc.  Is that the Catholic Church doing that or a **** using the name of the Catholic Church?

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, I am not getting into what happened in either cases.  I hold the belief that it was 'RA involved in both and nothing you will say will convince me of otherwise.  I am a bit too old in the tooth to see these people for anything other than what they are.

[pintsofguinness]

pints, I am not getting into what happened in either cases.  I hold the belief that it was 'RA involved in both and nothing you will say will convince me of otherwise.  I am a bit too old in the tooth to see these people for anything other than what they are.

You mean you want to believe it was the RA involved.

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, I am not getting into what happened in either cases.  I hold the belief that it was 'RA involved in both and nothing you will say will convince me of otherwise.  I am a bit too old in the tooth to see these people for anything other than what they are.

You mean you want to believe it was the RA involved.

In the Quinn murder, all sensible people would come to that conclusion given the facts.  In the McCartney murder, the world and its dog know it was RA.

It's not that I want to believe that, it's that the 'RA were to blame - definitely for the McCartney murder like I said.  The people involved in it read like a litany of the 'RA in the Markets.  From what I have heard of the Quinn murder, it would appear there were a significant number of 'RA involved who should have known better, if it hadn't been sanctioned

They have totally sickened me over the years.  At one point when I was young they promised the people responsible for my da's murder would be dealt with, they were, they were sent on an outdoor pursuits course after they were released from jail.

The only people the 'RA/SF want proper justice for is themselves

[pintsofguinness]

In the Quinn murder, all sensible people would come to that conclusion given the facts.

Yes, that it was a thug murdered by other thugs.  For God sake there is no IRA anymore.

[Trevor Hill]

The only people the 'RA/SF want proper justice for is themselves

How very true.

[Main Street]

No problem? At all?

Right through Enniskillen?
Omagh?
Jean McConville?
The corporals killings?

The list is endless.

Fenianism and Republicanism are one thing - terrorism is another altogether - and if you can see "honour" in any of the above, it is a sad indication.

Membership of an organisation which has planned and carried out, and then protected people who committed acts like this should most certainly be a matter of disrepute.

Who said any of the above you listed was honourable?Imo, the republican tradition is honourable and more recent times republican tradition is not far removed from the Fenians or the generation that followed that in the early part of the 20th C.

I can respect a unionist who felt his RUC acted honourably during the war but I seriously doubt if that would include the murder for example of the McCabe woman.

These acts were committed in the name of republicanism - something which you said was an honourable tradition. Unless I can't read.

They were also committed by the IRA - an organisation which you suggested membership of is not a matter of disrepute.

So my inference from your post is that YOU suggested any of the above acts were honourable when you waxed lyrical about the honor and integrity of republicanism and the IRA.

I understood quite well why you inferred before, thats why I replied to explain, instead of shooting you.
Then you just want to explain in greater detail why you inferred.
Are you at peace with my reply?

Or do you want to explain that there is such a thing a clean war, one with no rapes, murders, civilians getting killed in multiples of numbers of combatants getting killed.
Or do you want to reply that the Fenians were spot on their every bomb and their every bullet, that the 1916 rebellion was a rather interesting spectacle for the impoverished inner city Dubliners?

[Puckoon]

I struggle to comprehend that last reply in the slightest.

[lynchbhoy]

Originating an unfounded allegation as fact, in a public medium is libellous, not drawing attention to this in another public medium.

Also alleging someone to have orchestrated a campaign of murder surely places the burden of proof on the originator, should the person who was  the subject of the allegation decide to sue for libel.

Total balls.

A (written) comment is only libellous when a Court of Law deems it to be so i.e. the burden of proof for libel is on the plaintiff, not the defendant.

Therefore, you may make any comment you like, assuming you can find a publication to print it.

Of course, should a publication consider a comment is possibly/likely going to attract a successful libel action by the subject, then it (publication) will decline to print it.

Imo it is highly significant that the Belfast Telegraph was evidently happy to take the risk in this case i.e. they must be extremely confident that they could defend any lawsuit brought by Adams.

And speaking of defences, there is a well-known legal maxim that "Fair comment is not actionable" i.e. if you can prove what you have said to be true.

In a case such as this, the easiest way of doing so would be to produce credible evidence or witnesses to back up the assertion.

For evidence, I suggest the BT might rely on such as the following:


And for witnesses, they might eg refer to the Daily Telegraph, which on 16 March 2001 carried a report, based on an article in the Irish Echo, about a statement by Dolours Price.  She was at a republican ceremony in Ballina, County Mayo, in February 2001, to mark the 25th anniversary of the death of IRA hunger striker Frank Stagg. 
The Irish Echo said, 'Price had asked to speak because, she siad, like Stagg, both she and her sister had endured a hunger strike in 1973 and 1974.  Witnesses say she discarded her script and said she would 'speak from the heart'.
She then attacked high-ranking members of Sinn Fein who now dissociate themselves from the IRA. According to Ruairi O Bradaigh, the president of Republican Sinn Fein, who attended the event, she said that it was 'too much' to listen to people now saying they weren't in the IRA. Ms Price said: 'Gerry Adams was my commanding officer.'

I thaink GA has a strong case here and I would love to see him pursue it

I, too, would love to see Adams bring such a case, but for rather different reasons from yours...

P.S. I shall return to the other Adams thread when I get time (and hopefully at an earlier hour)

great - loads of words and even pictures to 'prove' what you say MUST be true !!
however - as per usual, loads of content, no actual points or proper truth in your rantings.
if Adams was to take them to court, it would be up to the paper to prove they were correct and not libelling him.
even if adams was OC of the IRA (which I firmly believe he never was and would still highly doubt he was ever a member on active service as lets face it - he doesnt have the balls for that kind of thing) then it still does not prove he was 'responsible for peoples deaths' as per newspaper comment.

all your little pics and comments from people still cannot prove that...

try to have a rational think about it - one person responsible for so many deaths - thats ludicrious - even by your standards !

[lynchbhoy]

No problem? At all?

Right through Enniskillen?
Omagh?
Jean McConville?
The corporals killings?

The list is endless.

Fenianism and Republicanism are one thing - terrorism is another altogether - and if you can see "honour" in any of the above, it is a sad indication.

Membership of an organisation which has planned and carried out, and then protected people who committed acts like this should most certainly be a matter of disrepute.

I dont think anyone on the side of republicanism would say that the whole campaign was without fault.
your examples above generally are just that. mistakes. Though I dont think you can make the usual unionist/loyalist mistake of lamping in omagh as a mistake by the IRA. That wasnt their operation.
This is an example of how people spin things alright though.

But as pints says, how bad were things that made people turn to the IRA and have to fight back.
Hardy is correct in his observations, but would not have been party or know what exactly went on in the 50's - 60's-70's - the genocidal type of treatment from the establishment terrorist forces in every day behaviour that brings outcry these days worldwide when its commnist north korea, war torn darfur or dictatorist central america.
That the IRA came into existence is a shame. Its a shame they had to. The acts on both sides are a shame if not disgrace. However politicians allowed this crap to happen.
Now there is parity - there is no coincedence that peace is prevalent.
Only the bitterness bred into kids from both sides allows this to continue, plus the refusal to progress into the modern age from some of the  loyalist/unionist peoples.
However this will all change in a few short years.

[Maguire01]

Why isn't it honourable puck? Because of some inexcusable incidents?  Inexcusable incidents happen in all wars, all armies have their scumbags.  That doesnt make those incidents acceptable of course.

Paul Quinn's death had nothing to do with the IRA,  neither did they fella stabbed at magennises - just scumbags and criminals hiding behind a name.

Bullshit pints.  It was 'RA who did the cover-up and clean-up in Magennises from the scrubbing to the CCTV being taken out.

Ceasefire soldiers ard, silly little pricks who think they are something but were very quiet when there was fighting going on.  They're not the IRA, there is no longer an IRA. 


I'll put it like this ard....it's like a priest sexually abusing someone and saying to that person if you complain or report me I'll have you excommunicated, you'll go to hell etc.  Is that the Catholic Church doing that or a **** using the name of the Catholic Church?

Does a priest have the power to excommunicate? Or would that decision have to be made by the higher ranks?
Anyway, if we're referring to the sex abuse scandal, that was a scandal of the Catholic Church, not in the name of the Catholic Church because, yes, the higher ranks of the organisation were implicit in how it was handled. But even if one, or a small number of priests acted together, in committing or covering up, that would still be a scandal of the Catholic Church in my opinion.

The terrorist events are no different - were all of these "inexcusable" events carried out without sanction from leadership?

[Maguire01]

No problem? At all?

Right through Enniskillen?
Omagh?
Jean McConville?
The corporals killings?

The list is endless.

Fenianism and Republicanism are one thing - terrorism is another altogether - and if you can see "honour" in any of the above, it is a sad indication.

Membership of an organisation which has planned and carried out, and then protected people who committed acts like this should most certainly be a matter of disrepute.

I dont think anyone on the side of republicanism would say that the whole campaign was without fault.
your examples above generally are just that. mistakes. Though I dont think you can make the usual unionist/loyalist mistake of lamping in omagh as a mistake by the IRA. That wasnt their operation.
This is an example of how people spin things alright though.

Yes, but considering the conversation seems to have moved on to the 'republican' campaign in general (rather than just the Gerry Adams letter), and given the quote from MS below, there's no reason why Omagh shouldn't be added to that list.

I certainly have no problem with the honourable tradition of Fenianism and Republicanism, right through to the recent times.

Also, as for the examples (and there are plenty more i'm sure) being mistakes, were they worth it? Has the end justified the means?