Limerick hurlers

[Zulu]

You're dead right Aghdavoyle, dowling is a one trick pony with paranoid delusions and little knowledge of what is going on.

Zulu and Reillers, you both need to read more closely what is written before getting on your high horse and firing accusations.

Pot...kettle...black, you've spent most of your time on this board perched on your high horse.

As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof by implying his refusal to vacate the manager's job is based on this. Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility. It has only entered the debate on these pages recently so you have to wonder how it has become a factor.

I introduced this to highlighted the hypocrisy of the likes of you who readily questioned the motivations of the Cork hurlers but haven't when we know Justin is actually getting money directly for his managerial role. But then again when you lack any balance and are a delusional doom merchant, I shouldn't be surprised.

This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.

Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process.

[dowling]

Zulu and Reillers, you both need to read more closely what is written before getting on your high horse and firing accusations.
I never insulted Mike Obrien and I'm quite sure he can think for himself. In fact he seems like a fairly sound fella. Just the sort you would want representing you in a dispute.
We all know the 'dropped and walk away' players have had meetings and it was reported they were training. At the beginning of the dispute the impression given however was that this wasn't going to be another Cork situation and that there wouldn't be a dispute, it was to be a case of carry on without us. That hasn't panned out however and there have been different statements and interviews. So there has to be some sort of coordination of what's being said. In that context it's very credible to question whether this latest interview fits in to all that.
In addition to that are we to also believe that the, now officially recognised players' body, the GPA are not or have not been in contact with those players mentioned?
Uladh describes my contribution as 'speculation'. And indeed that's what it is and what most of us contribute. But it's not wild speculation. It's firmly grounded.
If we go back to the Cork dispute that episode took a similar course. Players weren't on strike, they just weren't going to play. Then we had the a gradual increase in the statements and appearances by the strikers who obviously concluded they had to be proactive to win this dispute. I'd say all those Cork boys were well able to think for themselves but it would be a blind man that said everything they did wasn't coordinated and well thought out from a PR perspective. Their united interview, all wearing the same gear, who spoke and when. And of course they alluded to their coordination of everything themselves by underling their 'unity'.
This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.
One of the strengths of this Limerick group has to be to remain united and act collectively just as happened in Cork and while there may be the odd interview or utterance from an individual in a personal capacity the chances are that, as a group, they will be trying to avoid that so that all are seen to be singing from the same hymn sheet.
As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof by implying his refusal to vacate the manager's job is based on this. Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility. It has only entered the debate on these pages recently so you have to wonder how it has become a factor. And sure didn't Ger face a similar attack on his integrity by implying his refusal to leave was based on his 'business connections' with the county board even though he supported the strikers the previous year and the accusations flew in the face of reality?
As for the sacrifice issue Reillers I'm pointing out there's many more than county players who make sacrifices and greater ones. It shouldn't be an area claimed by anyone to strengthen an argument. Indeed if you read what I wrote I compliment the players for the sacrifices they make. But don't let what I write get in the way of a personal attack.
Perhaps if you two would calm down and look at things more logically and read what is written or questions which are posed you could both have a rational debate and be a little less personal with your comments.

You're gonna have to change your tune with the blaming the gpa for everything this time round dowling... they're offical players body now so they will be expected to get involved.

You contribute nothing to these debates by the way, except to dissuade people from reading. same as reillers. when you have to twist every single point to be endorsing your contentions and cannot accept there are 2 sides to things, error on all sides etc. then noone can take you seriously

Thanks for backing up my assertion of GPA involvement. I'm not blaming the GPA on everything however. Another one with difficulty reading.

I certainly accept there are two sides to everything but I don't necessarily agree with one side's view of resolution. For the 'exiled' players there has only been one means of resolution. Like the Cork strikers they have refused to enter any talks, and see no resolution other that getting rid of the management. That's a case of players trying to flex their power and using different means at their disposal which are distasteful and out of place. And I'm against that.
And even though you accuse me of twisting things others here have recognised my position as consistent.
If you want to try and insult feel free, it's no big deal to me but as I've stated previously a reflection on you.

[dowling]

You're dead right Aghdavoyle, dowling is a one trick pony with paranoid delusions and little knowledge of what is going on.

Zulu and Reillers, you both need to read more closely what is written before getting on your high horse and firing accusations.

Pot...kettle...black, you've spent most of your time on this board perched on your high horse.

As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof by implying his refusal to vacate the manager's job is based on this. Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility. It has only entered the debate on these pages recently so you have to wonder how it has become a factor.

I introduced this to highlighted the hypocrisy of the likes of you who readily questioned the motivations of the Cork hurlers but haven't when we know Justin is actually getting money directly for his managerial role. But then again when you lack any balance and are a delusional doom merchant, I shouldn't be surprised.

This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.

Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process.

Zulu I know the Cork dispute ran into an immense amount of pages on this board but I never once accused the Cork strikers of being motivated by personal financial gain. Perhaps we can put that to bed now.

As for Justin's 'expenses', if all managers get paid why have you introduced this as an element in the dispute? And what exactly is the relevance of it in the context that all managers get paid?



As for the last bit of your post;

"This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start." Me

"Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process." You

Well...Make no mistake this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one with accusations flying and media interventions from both sides

[dowling]

You're dead right Aghdavoyle, dowling is a one trick pony with paranoid delusions and little knowledge of what is going on.

Zulu and Reillers, you both need to read more closely what is written before getting on your high horse and firing accusations.

Pot...kettle...black, you've spent most of your time on this board perched on your high horse.

As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof by implying his refusal to vacate the manager's job is based on this. Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility. It has only entered the debate on these pages recently so you have to wonder how it has become a factor.

I introduced this to highlighted the hypocrisy of the likes of you who readily questioned the motivations of the Cork hurlers but haven't when we know Justin is actually getting money directly for his managerial role. But then again when you lack any balance and are a delusional doom merchant, I shouldn't be surprised.

This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.

Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process.

Zulu I know the Cork dispute ran into an immense amount of pages on this board but I never once accused the Cork strikers of being motivated by personal financial gain. Perhaps we can put that to bed now.

As for Justin's 'expenses', if all managers get paid why have you introduced this as an element in the dispute? And what exactly is the relevance of it in the context that all managers get paid?



As for the last bit of your post;

"This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start." Me

"Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process." You

Well...Make no mistake this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one with accusations flying and media interventions from both sides

Oh by the way Zulu that last bit there was posted by you on page 14.
You mightn't like it but it sort of backs my argument, don't you think?

Seems we're both abreast of things.

[Zulu]

Zulu I know the Cork dispute ran into an immense amount of pages on this board but I never once accused the Cork strikers of being motivated by personal financial gain. Perhaps we can put that to bed now.

I'm certainly not going to go through that thread looking for a quote to prove you did but I'm fairly sure you did and if you didn't say it yourself you never questioned the validity of those who did. So you either said it yourself or you implied support for that accusation by your silence.

As for Justin's 'expenses', if all managers get paid why have you introduced this as an element in the dispute? And what exactly is the relevance of it in the context that all managers get paid?

Jesus man, you accuse others of being unable to read. I've explained why I brought it up, in my last post in fact.

Oh by the way Zulu that last bit there was posted by you on page 14.
You mightn't like it but it sort of backs my argument, don't you think?[/quote

No it doesn't, this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one at the local level but there isn't the same dynamics going on here. There was 12 players dropped, 12 more dropped themselves and one of them has gone back but there isn't the same media to and fro and the players aren't organised like the Cork players were. In fact i was talking to a Limerick footballer recently and he told me the players weren't doing anything as a group and those on the football panel won't be going back.

I'm not blaming the GPA on everything however.

Eh, yes you are. you even tried to bring the GPA into the Armagh managerial merry-go-round earlier on in the year.


Why can't you accept that these players aren't happy with Justin, won't play for him but are letting those who do want to play get on with it and leave it at that?

[Reillers]

You're dead right Aghdavoyle, dowling is a one trick pony with paranoid delusions and little knowledge of what is going on.

Zulu and Reillers, you both need to read more closely what is written before getting on your high horse and firing accusations.

Pot...kettle...black, you've spent most of your time on this board perched on your high horse.

As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof by implying his refusal to vacate the manager's job is based on this. Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility. It has only entered the debate on these pages recently so you have to wonder how it has become a factor.

I introduced this to highlighted the hypocrisy of the likes of you who readily questioned the motivations of the Cork hurlers but haven't when we know Justin is actually getting money directly for his managerial role. But then again when you lack any balance and are a delusional doom merchant, I shouldn't be surprised.

This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.

Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process.

Zulu I know the Cork dispute ran into an immense amount of pages on this board but I never once accused the Cork strikers of being motivated by personal financial gain. Perhaps we can put that to bed now.

As for Justin's 'expenses', if all managers get paid why have you introduced this as an element in the dispute? And what exactly is the relevance of it in the context that all managers get paid?



As for the last bit of your post;

"This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start." Me

"Utter nonsense, the players have rarely been in the media, compared to the Cork players and there isn't a recurring public debate between players and management. Once again you highlight how little you know and how unbalanced your view of this issue is, which can be summed up by players bad, managers good, GPA all powerful evil force. I wonder why you never contribute to this board except when there is a player dispute, everyone else has interests beyond these but not you, which i think explains your thought process." You

Well...Make no mistake this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one with accusations flying and media interventions from both sides

I remember Sean Og getting a bit of grief on here, I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find many personal attacks on players by yourself and other posters. But sure that's grand..once it's not personal attacks on the manager. Why because with you there is only one side of a story.
You have no problem at all making presumptions and giving grief and attacking players personally, but it's out of line when someone has a go at the other side, even when it is something that might need to be looked at or is relevant.

[orangeman]

Sunday Sport on now with a piece on the whole Limerick issue.

Certainly seems that clubs voted against player power last week.

[dowling]

So Zulu and Reillers, neither of you can show anything I posted to back up accusations of personal attacks, aren't going to bother trying, assume I did but even if I didn't I'm guilty because I didn't challange others. To be honest I don't know how to view that. Are you covering all bases, taking liberties or a bit of both? To say you're both stretching your credibility would be putting it mildly.
Catch yourselves on.

[Reillers]

I never insulted Mike Obrien and I'm quite sure he can think for himself. In fact he seems like a fairly sound fella. Just the sort you would want representing you in a dispute.

You implied that someone else is pulling his strings. It's as clear as day from your point. Which clearly shows no respect for him. You can't compliment him one minute and call him a puppet the next.

We all know the 'dropped and walk away' players have had meetings and it was reported they were training.

..So..I think you'll find both sides have meetings..it's how they function.

At the beginning of the dispute the impression given however was that this wasn't going to be another Cork situation and that there wouldn't be a dispute, it was to be a case of carry on without us. That hasn't panned out however and there have been different statements and interviews.So there has to be some sort of coordination of what's being said. In that context it's very credible to question whether this latest interview fits in to all that.

Limerick have kept playing without out, and obviously, well for some, there's coordination of what's being said, just like on the other side. But the interview is just that an interview from a very well respected player, giving his OWN opinion, not some script to read out, written by a member of the GPA.

In addition to that are we to also believe that the, now officially recognised players' body, the GPA are not or have not been in contact with those players mentioned?

The GPA has NOTHING to do with this dispute, why you continue to drag them into this, and every other dispute, it's ridiculous..

Uladh describes my contribution as 'speculation'. And indeed that's what it is and what most of us contribute. But it's not wild speculation. It's firmly grounded.

It is speculation, always is, personal attacks and insults on players with nothing more than what you think is going on..

If we go back to the Cork dispute that episode took a similar course. Players weren't on strike, they just weren't going to play. Then we had the a gradual increase in the statements and appearances by the strikers who obviously concluded they had to be proactive to win this dispute.

So you just expected them to sit there and get hammered by the press and Gerald. They had to be proactive to stop getting burried by attacks from Gerald in the media who made statement and statement after statement..including personal attacks on players.

I'd say all those Cork boys were well able to think for themselves but it would be a blind man that said everything they did wasn't coordinated and well thought out from a PR perspective.

That's not what you thought back then, back then it was all Donal Og's fault.
Of course they coordinated, it's a team, a group of peoples opinions/ And EVERYONE, both sides, tried to make themselves clear in their stance and fight for what they believed were right.

Their united interview, all wearing the same gear, who spoke and when. And of course they alluded to their coordination of everything themselves by underling their 'unity'.

And there's something wrong with acting as a team, everyone having a say in what's going on. The way you talk about "unity" I man honest to God by the sound of ya, you think you'd never been on a team before.

This present dispute has taken a very similar course and which I've predicated from the start.
One of the strengths of this Limerick group has to be to remain united and act collectively just as happened in Cork and while there may be the odd interview or utterance from an individual in a personal capacity the chances are that, as a group, they will be trying to avoid that so that all are seen to be singing from the same hymn sheet.

Maybe..just maybe..they are, just like in the Cork dispute, singing off from the same hymn sheet. 

When I hear the talk of you, it honestly sounds like you were never on a team..people think for themselves, there are not all mighty powers behind this like..

As for Justin's expenses and how relative this is. I doubt there would be too many posters who could come on here and give any details. But you both seem to think it's acceptable to question this man's integrity without any proof

You'd no problem questioning the integrity of the players, based purely on your own opinion, with no proof what so ever or evidence, or anything really to back you up, but you go ahead and attack players anyway..

Someone somewhere started this, most probably to muddy the water of the dispute and in the hope others would parrot it to give it credibility.

Not saying it's true..but..smoke..fire..

As for the sacrifice issue Reillers I'm pointing out there's many more than county players who make sacrifices and greater ones

More presumptions..having a go at them, with nothing ot back it up. They don't make as much sacrifice (with no proof) in your mind so you get to have a go at them and they can't stand on one foot when put next to Justin.

It shouldn't be an area claimed by anyone to strengthen an argument.

..eh..

Indeed if you read what I wrote I compliment the players for the sacrifices they make. But don't let what I write get in the way of a personal attack.

Ya, sure they do sacrifice a bit, not as much as anyone else, but a bit..is basically what you said, and said again in this post.

Perhaps if you two would calm down and look at things more logically and read what is written or questions which are posed you could both have a rational debate and be a little less personal with your comments.

Pot, kettle, black..You twist every fact and every thing anyone says to suit one side of the story, to a ridiculous level. You refuse to debate anything, you'll attack players and posters on a personal level, but sure the manager doesn't deserve the same treatement..and you can't even see what you're doing.

You sound incredibly bitter and resentful, one of the few who resents IC players for their success I imagine. There are a few in each club.

[dowling]

Reillers, first off that's hard to read!
Here's the thing though. Time to put up or shut up.
Put up one post where I criticised any Cork striker on a personal level.

[dowling]

That's easier to read.
But still twisting what I say and personal.

[Reillers]

Reillers, first off that's hard to read!
Here's the thing though. Time to put up or shut up.
Put up one post where I criticised any Cork striker on a personal level.

You think I'm going to go through 503 pages to look for posts where you have go at players all the time, players like Sean Og, Donal Og etc. Good one..
And you say you haven't, which I don't believe, but you still think it's fine for everyone, including Gerald Mac to rip into the players, attacking them personally, but if you think a player has done it or a media outlet has done it then there's hell to pay..

[heffo]

Reillers, first off that's hard to read!
Here's the thing though. Time to put up or shut up.
Put up one post where I criticised any Cork striker on a personal level.

You think I'm going to go through 503 pages to look for posts where you have go at players all the time, players like Sean Og, Donal Og etc. Good one..
And you say you haven't, which I don't believe, but you still think it's fine for everyone, including Gerald Mac to rip into the players, attacking them personally, but if you think a player has done it or a media outlet has done it then there's hell to pay..

For the umpteenth time, the first shot of the last GPA/professional product models/occasional hurlers strike was fired clearly by the strikers when they fed Kieran Shannon a very detailed personal assasination on Ger Mac - Sunday Tribune October bank holiday weekend 2008 - if you have a source that says otherwise then please post it - otherwise shutup.

[GAA_Punter]

McCarthy fails to tempt any of the 11 exiled players back

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/03/29/mccarthy-fails-to-tempt-any-of-the-11-exiled-players-back/

[dowling]

Reillers, first off that's hard to read!
Here's the thing though. Time to put up or shut up.
Put up one post where I criticised any Cork striker on a personal level.

You think I'm going to go through 503 pages to look for posts where you have go at players all the time, players like Sean Og, Donal Og etc. Good one..
And you say you haven't, which I don't believe, but you still think it's fine for everyone, including Gerald Mac to rip into the players, attacking them personally, but if you think a player has done it or a media outlet has done it then there's hell to pay..

That's exactly the point Reillers I don't expect you to do that as you've always been happy to level accusations without checking if they're true.