Limerick hurlers

[INDIANA]

I hope that some of the 09 squad show good character and return to the team.

Doubt it will happen reading the quotes from them. The squad they have now will remain. Could be painful in the championship fro them.

[Uladh]

I hope that some of the 09 squad show good character and return to the team.

Surely good charachter would dictate that they would not return? They'd have to stick to what they believe now rather than adopying the opinion of the delegates

[orangeman]

Do Cork and Limerick share the exact same set of club delegates that vote consistently according to how the top table tell them ?.


Or have club delegates in Limerick decided to take on player power ?.

[cicfada]

There are some differences between the 2 conflicts to be fair:

1. The current players have not been chastised by the 09 squad.

2. There have not been any marches in Limerick in Support of the 09 players indicating that most Limerick GAA people want the co board to sort it out.

3. There was not the looming presence of a  JP mc Manus hanging over things in Cork. It is said that he will withdraw  support for the co board in the event of Mc Carthy being ousted!

4. The 09 squad have not won anything so have less legs to stand on. The Cork 08 squad had won a few all irelands and therefore had more weight to their grievances.

5. Hurling is the number one sport in Cork, Hurling is at best number 3 in Limerick and so most sporting people in Limerick don't care about it!

6. Both Mc Carthy and the 09 players have not gone to the media at every opportunity  and so it has not descended into bitterness at the  same level as the Cork one!

in my opinion there are some of the differences between the 2 disputes and so any attempt to link the 2 are incorrect and pointless!! Limerick will just have to write this year off and get thier older players back under new management next year!! Sad but true!!

[INDIANA]

Do Cork and Limerick share the exact same set of club delegates that vote consistently according to how the top table tell them ?.


Or have club delegates in Limerick decided to take on player power ?.

Bit of both really. A lot of people in Limierick have little time for the 2009 squad anymore. The only issue is the championship. I worry what might happen to them. Could lose by 25 points in the first round. No county in Ireland would survive a hiding like that. They have little or nothing coming through either.
You'd worry about Limerick hurling in general.

[cornafean]

Ding Dong the GPA is dead.

[Canalman]

Don't forget Limerick got hammered by 24 points in AISF last year. Get the impression that LCB are willing to take a step back in order to progress in the long term.

The clubs have spoken....... end of.

Anyway a Limerick team won the Harty Cup this year so it's not all doom and gloom for a hurling county I really admire.

[Zulu]

Make no mistake this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one with accusations flying and media interventions from both sides, the only difference is that most people don't really care about Limerick whereas Cork are 'big time'. I wouldn't say Limerick GAA folk support their CB at all and 5 senior hurling clubs brought this vote to the floor so their is significant opposition to how this has been handled. Nevertheless it is hard to feel sympathy for any side in this one as none of them have put Limerick hurling above themselves and haven't done so for many years now.

[heffo]

Make no mistake this dispute is just as messy as the Cork one with accusations flying and media interventions from both sides.

I can't agree Zulu  - there has been far less personalised attacks leaked from the players this time (maybe cos Kieran Shannon couldn't give a fiddlers about keeping in with the Limerick panel) and I can't for the life of me imagine there would be an organised boycott of a funeral by Mark Foley if Justin McCarthy's mother passed away..

[Zulu]

Not on the surface heffo but that is because nobody really cares but behind the scenes there is a lot of shit flying and accusations of threats, offers of jobs to come back and play, questions about Justins 'expenses', false stories being circulated by certain people etc. It is nasty enough and the players have had to come out in the media to refute certain other media stories from the CB, so its going on, it just isn't the big news that Cork was.

[dowling]

Not on the surface heffo but that is because nobody really cares but behind the scenes there is a lot of shit flying and accusations of threats, offers of jobs to come back and play, questions about Justins 'expenses', false stories being circulated by certain people etc. It is nasty enough and the players have had to come out in the media to refute certain other media stories from the CB, so its going on, it just isn't the big news that Cork was.

I'm presuming that coma was a 'typo' Zulu. Unless you can add something some of us don't know.
I don't think there's anything different at all about the disputes. Cork strikers wanted a different manager, Limerick strikers want a different manager.
Isn't it strange that the present Waterford manager is looking beyond the players Justin put down the pecking order, the same players who instigated Justin's departure. Maybe you can instigate such a departure once or it shows you up.
If Justin was being stubborn or 'suchlike' why did he leave the Waterford job but dig in now?
Anyway it's probably all academic in the long run after Duffy's comments this week which point at an acceptance of paying managers. That will mean acceptance of paying players and when that officially happens the players will call all shots. The GPA's argument has been from the start that the 'big wigs' are profitting so why shouldn't the players. Bringing the managers into the equation sets up another tier. Maybe it's time to get rid of the salaried officials or to at least drastically reduce their salaries.

[Zulu]

I'm presuming that coma was a 'typo' Zulu. Unless you can add something some of us don't know.

It isn't a typo and it appears it is only you who is out of the loop, everyone else knows what's going on.

Anyway it's probably all academic in the long run after Duffy's comments this week which point at an acceptance of paying managers. That will mean acceptance of paying players and when that officially happens the players will call all shots.

Nonsense, is there no end to your doomsday predictions?

The GPA's argument has been from the start that the 'big wigs' are profitting so why shouldn't the players.

No it hasn't.

Bringing the managers into the equation sets up another tier.

Managers and coaches have been paid for quite some time now and players have never sought to be paid on the back of this so why would that change?

Maybe it's time to get rid of the salaried officials or to at least drastically reduce their salaries.

Good idea, lets throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Zulu]

MIKE O'BRIEN doesn't normally do interviews, notoriously gun-shy when it comes to facing any kind of microphone, so when you get a call from him saying he wants to talk, you know that this is an upset individual.

"I'm bulling," said the Glenroe farmer. It's not a raging anger but it's deep, has been building for some time, and now it needs ventilating.

It was an interview given shortly after that cull in which McCarthy made several statements suggesting that ill-discipline and a lack of commitment was behind his decision. It's all that has happened since then, culminating in the vote at a special county board meeting last Tuesday night in which an overwhelming majority of delegates – including the delegate from O'Brien's own club, Glenroe – voted their support for the manager.

"Since 1998, when I was called on to the panel by Eamonn Cregan, I've travelled into Limerick three or four times a week, 30 miles there, 30 miles back, and to be honest, that's all I ever wanted to do. Once I got on to that panel, nothing else mattered – farming, my social life, all came behind hurling.

"Glenroe is a small place on the edge of south Limerick, only about 300 people, and I'm the first ever from this club to play senior hurling championship with Limerick; that's a huge honour for me, and I've always felt that, I take great pride in that.

"Often the milking-machine might be going late into the night, to accommodate a match in the afternoon or early evening – that was never a problem, that's what I wanted to do.

"But, when your time is up, your time is up. I'm 32 years of age and if Justin McCarthy felt I was no longer of any use to him, if he had picked up the phone and told me 'You're not in my plans for 2010', I would have had no problem with that, none whatsoever. It was only a matter of common courtesy; any time I wasn't able to make training – and that wasn't very often, I can tell you – I'd pick up the phone and contact Justin.

"To pick up your local paper then and read that you were dropped because of disciplinary problems – I never wanted any kind of praise for anything I did, I did it because I wanted to do it, but I don't want to read that kind of stuff in the paper either, people who don't know me getting that impression.

"That I found really hard to take, and still do. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I travel 30 miles into training, 30 miles home again afterwards, often got home at nearly midnight. Many an evening I had to leave my father here to finish the cows for me, a man in his late 70s, so I could rush in to training.

"I prepared for every championship game like it was my last, and even in the league I had the same attitude. There was never any messing, I always prepared to the letter of the law – no-one can tell me that my preparation was ever less than 100%."

WHAT about everyone else though – did the same apply to them? "I've heard the rumours, and it's bullshit. We never lost a championship match because of drinking, we lost because we weren't good enough on the day.

"I wouldn't have tolerated it anyway; I'm travelling in and out from Glenroe, an hour in, an hour out; I don't drink, I look after myself – wouldn't I be some fool if I tolerated fellas around me acting the goat? I'd have to look at my own commitment if that was going on, but it wasn't.

"In fact, during the year, and on many occasions, Justin McCarthy told us we were one of the best teams to train that he ever trained, that we were a pleasure to train – then he comes out and says this. It doesn't add up. There was no more drinking going on in Limerick than any other county, probably less than a lot of them.

"As far as I'm concerned, there's far too much focus on the players in all of this, and not enough on the manager, nor the county board. Ask yourself this – how many Limerick players went well last year? If three or four students fail their exams from a class of 30, you might blame the students, but if all 30 fail, who do you blame?

"And yet, after losing to Tipperary in the All-Ireland semi-final by 24 points, Justin was never called in by the board and asked to explain what had gone wrong. Instead, he cuts 12 guys from the panel, without a phone call, with an inference that it was because of a lack of discipline, and again he's not asked for an explanation.

"Among the players he cuts are some of the best players in the county, with no readymade replacements lined up – how can that be right? Where's the sense in that? Liam Lenihan is chairman of the county board, the man in charge, the top dog; how could he preside over all this? Why did he never bring in Justin after that defeat against Tipperary? Why wasn't Justin told – 'Look, Limerick is a proud hurling county but to be beaten in Croke Park in an All-Ireland semi-final by 24 points, to concede six goals, that's not good enough.'

"But there was nothing made of it, the chairman of our county board never once challenged the manager to come up with answers – all the blame fell on the players."

Which brings us to Tuesday night's board meeting, the vote for McCarthy: "Don't talk to me," O'Brien replies. "When the first vote (of confidence) was taken (last December), Glenroe voted against Justin – there are two of us involved from the club, myself and Stephen Walsh, who was one of those who walked away after the way we were cut.

"Four hammerings later in the league, things gone from bad to worse, and the club voted for Justin – I'm still trying to get my head around that. I'm not bitter about it, this is still my club and a lot of very good people in it, but how could they do that to Stephen Walsh and myself? Didn't they know that by voting for Justin on Tuesday they were saying they agreed with what he had done?

"Then again, I know a few of those who voted for Justin in the club and put it this way – they won't be on The Sunday Game as hurling analysts any time soon. When your own club won't support you, though, it's hard to see why any other club should. I had some great times with the hurlers and the footballers, don't regret a minute of it, but it's a pity it ends like this."


This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, March 26, 2010

[orangeman]

It's sad to read a story like that.

A man that lived and breatherd hurling, tee total etc.

[Zulu]

No going back for saddened players
By Diarmuid O'Flynn

Friday, March 26, 2010



AT the conclusion of Tuesday night's vote of the Limerick County Board which confirmed Justin McCarthy as manager of the senior hurling team for the remainder of this season at least, chairman Liam Lenihan made a heartfelt appeal that all would accept the decision, and that the players now at loggerheads with the management would return to the fold.



That invitation by the board, however, has so far been extended only towards those who walked away from the panel, the 12 who were cut last October still excluded.



1) Do you accept that it's all over?

2) Will you consider returning to the panel now?

All 24 responded. There was just one 'No comment'; most replies were short if not sweet, some shorter than others; many, however, were more revealing, told of the demons being suffered as players make a decision they never thought they'd have to face.

ON THE FENCE:

1) I'd prefer not to comment on my own position at this point.

SHORTEST ANSWERS:

2, 3 & 4) Yes and No (three players).

5) Probably yes; definitely no.

6) As it stands for this year, yes; no.

7) Must be the end, won't be going back now.

'Tis the end, and I won't be back.

9) Yes; no, not a living chance in hell.

LESS SHORT ANSWERS:

10) It's the end of Limerick hurling for me.

11) Yes this is the end, as far as I'm concerned, and as long as Justin is there I will not be back.

12) The clubs have spoken and it's final; secondly, I'm not going to hurl under the current management team.

13) Yes, the show is over for this year, and no, am not returning – gutted.

14) End of year for Limerick hurling for 2010; will not be playing inter-county hurling this year.

15) Yes I think it's finished for the year, and no I won't be available for selection under the current management.

LESS SHORT AGAIN:

16) Yes, it's over; whether or not I go back is not up to me as I was dropped from the panel originally, but if was asked back I wouldn't go, it's just not a professional enough setup for inter-county hurling.

17) Yes this is the end, but in my opinion it's also the end of Limerick hurling. A disaster – Division 2 hurling and people are content? Can't believe the outcome. Won't go back under any circumstances – a joke.

18) It's the end for me anyway, I'm going to concentrate on my club hurling. I never had any problem with Justin.

19) Ya, this is the end for me anyway, I won't be going back. If I met anyone from the county board today I wouldn't be responsible for myself.

MORE ELABORATE:

20) It's the end of it for now, yes, the year is a write-off at this stage and the decision has to be respected. I can't go back as I was dropped in the first place, so the decision isn't mine. I doubt I'll get a phonecall but if I did, I'd have no hesitation in telling Justin to shove it.

21) At this stage I just want to let the thing off. Hurling for Limerick has been my life and is my heart; what's gone on has been heart-breaking. I don't know where I, as a hurler, am going for the rest of my career, and more importantly, I don't know where we as a county are headed. Time to just can the publicity and let what's going to happen develop.

22) Very disappointed but I don't see what else can be done. We have all given our lives to hurling since a young age and to see it turn out like this against us is very disappointing; will I play while Justin is still in charge? Not after the way he treated us. At the end of the day we were 24 Limerick men and we want only what's best for Limerick hurling – nothing else.

23) I was one of the 12 originally cut from the panel in October, for whatever reason I still don't know, so don't think I would have much choice to go back or not; if asked, I wouldn't go anyway. The whole thing is a farce and a disgrace and I don't think it's the end of it yet. A sad day for Limerick hurling.

24) It is the end, and no way would I ever play under him again. Anyway the 12 who were dropped don't have a choice, but already they are back pressurising the lads that walked. [Tuesday] night was simple – 'We'll show them players, sure they got hammered by Tipperary! We beat player power!'. Absolute f***ing joke. We don't deserve success in this county – a political battle was won, hurling is F***ED.





This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, March 26, 2010