John O'Donoghue -& his expenses

[stephenite]

Surely it's only a matter of time before other Ministers, ex-Ministers etc. get shown up for expense claims as a result of this?

A neccessary can of worms has been opened - wonder who'll be next to walk the plank

[Zapatista]

Easy for youse nordies to sit back and laugh at the rest of Ireland when ye live in a 'fake makey uppey' statelet bankrolled by the english taxpayer. Sure everybody knows that the 6 counties would be fcuked without England. Dont be under any illusions that robinson, McGuinness and co. are not screwing the english taxpayer also. What's going on here is really rotten. As a Kerryman I would never defend O Donoghue. However he may be the only scapegoat. Them dept of Finance guidelines need to be changed for the good of the country.

You have to be joking?  That you Paidi?

[Hound]

Claiming back the £1 he gave to some 'tin in face' merchant in Scotland took the biscuit.

Not defending O'Donoghue, as I beleive he deserves everything he got (apart from the payoff), and as for Paudi O'Se, just a sleveen who many Kerry people despise.

But the £1 charity wasnt put into a box, it was automatically added on to a hotel bill (there are some chains of hotels that automatically add on a charity contriubtion unless you specifically request them not to do so), so O'Donoghue would have just handed in the hotel bill when claiming his expenses, which contained the £1 charge among all the other charges. Its fair to say he probably didnt even notice it. There are lots of things to have a go at O'Donoghue about, but the £1 charity is a complete red herring.

[Gnevin]

Surely it's only a matter of time before other Ministers, ex-Ministers etc. get shown up for expense claims as a result of this?

A neccessary can of worms has been opened - wonder who'll be next to walk the plank

Is it really walking the plank when you get a bail out and keep your job?



O'Donoghue in line for €112,000 payoff
We've opened a can of worms -- Gormley

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By Michael Brennan Political Correspondent

Thursday October 08 2009

CEANN Comhairle John O'Donoghue will receive a €112,500 'golden parachute' for resigning in the wake of his expenses scandal.

The deposed Speaker of the Dail will be able to claim a salary of €100,000 for serving as a backbench TD. After two years he will be able to also claim an annual ministerial pension of around €25,000 -- rising to €67,000 when he retires from the Dail.

The severance package is designed to compensate Mr O'Donoghue for dropping from a salary of €212,500 as Ceann Comhairle to €100,000 as a TD.

The extent of the generous payoff is certain to fuel further public anger over the deepening politicians' pay controversy.

As it raged yesterday, the Greens said they intended to make the reform of the discredited Dail expenses regime a key plank of the coalition's programme for government negotiations.

However, the party's ministers are being forced to reveal details of their own travel expenses -- despite preaching about transparency since coming to power two years ago.

Ministers John Gormley and Eamon Ryan are only releasing details of their expenses claims after a series of parliamentary questions from opposition TDs and Freedom of Information Act requests from the Irish Independent in the wake of the spending scandal.

They claimed last night that they were voluntarily preparing to provide their expenses details in the coming weeks -- but haven't done so to date.

Following the announcement of the Ceann Comhairle's imminent resignation, Mr Gormley yesterday admitted all ministers' expenses would reveal "anomalies and excesses".

He said an overhaul of the system should involve "more openness and transparency".

"I think what we have done here is opened up a can of worms, because quite frankly, if you were to do a trawl of all ministers, admittedly John O'Donoghue is probably in a league of his own, but you will find anomalies and you will find excesses," he said.

The Department of Finance last night confirmed Mr O'Donoghue would be entitled to the severance pay because the office of the Ceann Comhairle is designated as a ministerial office for such purposes.

His spokesman was unable to confirm last night whether Mr O'Donoghue would accept the severance pay, or voluntarily decline it. Fine Gael TD Denis Naughton said the revelations would not make the public feel any happier about the scandal over Mr O'Donoghue's €250,000 expenses bill.

"We're back very much to a situation where the Ceann Comhairle is leaving because of what was published, yet he's getting a golden handshake," he said.

Payments

The severance payments are based on Mr O'Donoghue's salary as Ceann Comhairle, which was reduced from €125,000 to €112,500 in line with the 10pc ministerial pay cut in last October's Budget.

He will receive 75pc of his previous monthly salary for the next six months (€42,187). He will then receive 50pc of his previous monthly salary for the following 12 months (€56,250) and 25pc for the following six months (€14,062). The payments will be taxed, so Mr O'Donoghue is likely to receive around half of the €112,500 total.

However, Mr O'Donoghue will lose his ministerial car and driver once he steps down as Ceann Comhairle next week.

According to information provided by the Department of Finance, former ministers such as Mr O'Donoghue are entitled to claim a full ministerial pension if they have 10 years' service.

His full ministerial pension will be around €67,000 when he retires from the Dail. But he will be able to claim 37.5pc of this figure (€25,000 annually) once his severance payments are completed in two years' time.

- Michael Brennan Political Correspondent

Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/odonoghue-in-line-for-8364112000-payoff-1907549.html

[Lone Shark]

When I see stuff like this, I can't help but think of my time working with various bookmaking concerns, and listening to the powers that be talking about "cleaning up" horse racing, despite the fact that these people completely miss the point.

Every time that a horse which should be in contention is effectively stopped, some poor fecker in a betting shop is getting robbed, since he just picked this name out of the paper despite the fact that the horse never had a chance. A lot of the time the punter in question, when he realises that his horse is not trying, gives out about cheating hoors destroying the game and so on.

Here's the thing though - if you told that same punter before the race that his horse wasn't off, but another horse was lined up for the race and had a great chance at a healthy price, would he have stormed off and given out about how corrupt the sport is? Would he feck, he'd be straight down to the ATM and putting half a week's wages on the fancied tip.

When it comes to politics in this country, the Irish people are the very same. We say that we want an honest game, where people are ostensibly trying to make life better for the citizenry as a whole, but that's not what we want at all. We want the inside track, we want to be the person who backs the right time, who is the beneficiary of the corruption. All the votes for people like Lowry, Flynn, O'Donoghue and hundreds more like them are just that - a big "up yours" to the nation of Ireland, but a statement that I want mine. People in South Kerry aren't voting for John O'Donoghue because he got them a fair shake, they're voting for him because he got them way more than that, at least in the areas he had control over.

We have proved, as a race, time and time again that we don't want honesty, we don't want fair play. I just wish we'd stop pretending that we did. Páidí is just standing up for the man who looked after him, and so it goes - mutual back scratching, enough to give the impression to every poor voter in South Kerry that by voting for JOD, they get to be part of the whole thing, and they get a bit of help pulling a few strokes of their own.

However the real sad part of it is that this is all a mirage - Irish politicians have made a virtue out of doing their basic duty. Some company decides to locate a research and development facility in Limerick City, so Willie O'Dea gets to be at the head of the crowd for the ribbon cutting, despite the fact that the man probably didn't even know who the company was until the deal was 95% approved. Limerick people applaud their man for looking after them, despite the fact that they're the ones going to have to do the work, and the politicians had feck all to do with it in most cases.

Charlie's Charvet shirts, Bertie Ahern's digouts, John O'Donoghue's ten star hotels, Mary Coughlan's existence in any job that requires the most basic intellectual capacity and professionalism, all of these things are part of the package. The Irish culture requires the body politic to have things they don't deserve. How else are we, the humble voters, supposed to believe that some day, by getting on the winning team, we too can have all these things that we don't deserve?

People play lotto thinking, it could be you, looking at the winners and their big lifestyle. They don't realise that "it is you". It is you who paid for this. That's your money that this lucky so-and-so is just spending on their third sports car.

So it is with politics. We want to be the insiders, because the inside is clearly the place to be. Let's face it, that's why Fianna Fáil don't punish O'Donoghue for what he did - it's not only part of their culture, it's part of their strategy.

Some day I'd love to get involved in politics, but politicians who go into this game trying to achieve anything get punished, or in most cases, don't even get started. They've made the rules, they've drawn the boundaries, and they know their audience.

[SLIGONIAN]

When I see stuff like this, I can't help but think of my time working with various bookmaking concerns, and listening to the powers that be talking about "cleaning up" horse racing, despite the fact that these people completely miss the point.

Every time that a horse which should be in contention is effectively stopped, some poor fecker in a betting shop is getting robbed, since he just picked this name out of the paper despite the fact that the horse never had a chance. A lot of the time the punter in question, when he realises that his horse is not trying, gives out about cheating hoors destroying the game and so on.

Here's the thing though - if you told that same punter before the race that his horse wasn't off, but another horse was lined up for the race and had a great chance at a healthy price, would he have stormed off and given out about how corrupt the sport is? Would he feck, he'd be straight down to the ATM and putting half a week's wages on the fancied tip.

When it comes to politics in this country, the Irish people are the very same. We say that we want an honest game, where people are ostensibly trying to make life better for the citizenry as a whole, but that's not what we want at all. We want the inside track, we want to be the person who backs the right time, who is the beneficiary of the corruption. All the votes for people like Lowry, Flynn, O'Donoghue and hundreds more like them are just that - a big "up yours" to the nation of Ireland, but a statement that I want mine. People in South Kerry aren't voting for John O'Donoghue because he got them a fair shake, they're voting for him because he got them way more than that, at least in the areas he had control over.

We have proved, as a race, time and time again that we don't want honesty, we don't want fair play. I just wish we'd stop pretending that we did. Páidí is just standing up for the man who looked after him, and so it goes - mutual back scratching, enough to give the impression to every poor voter in South Kerry that by voting for JOD, they get to be part of the whole thing, and they get a bit of help pulling a few strokes of their own.

However the real sad part of it is that this is all a mirage - Irish politicians have made a virtue out of doing their basic duty. Some company decides to locate a research and development facility in Limerick City, so Willie O'Dea gets to be at the head of the crowd for the ribbon cutting, despite the fact that the man probably didn't even know who the company was until the deal was 95% approved. Limerick people applaud their man for looking after them, despite the fact that they're the ones going to have to do the work, and the politicians had feck all to do with it in most cases.

Charlie's Charvet shirts, Bertie Ahern's digouts, John O'Donoghue's ten star hotels, Mary Coughlan's existence in any job that requires the most basic intellectual capacity and professionalism, all of these things are part of the package. The Irish culture requires the body politic to have things they don't deserve. How else are we, the humble voters, supposed to believe that some day, by getting on the winning team, we too can have all these things that we don't deserve?

People play lotto thinking, it could be you, looking at the winners and their big lifestyle. They don't realise that "it is you". It is you who paid for this. That's your money that this lucky so-and-so is just spending on their third sports car.

So it is with politics. We want to be the insiders, because the inside is clearly the place to be. Let's face it, that's why Fianna Fáil don't punish O'Donoghue for what he did - it's not only part of their culture, it's part of their strategy.

Some day I'd love to get involved in politics, but politicians who go into this game trying to achieve anything get punished, or in most cases, don't even get started. They've made the rules, they've drawn the boundaries, and they know their audience.

Excellently written post, but it is apocalypitic in ways, where is the hope if the good politicians always get frozen out. Also the bit in bold carries more weight with me than any other part of my being, honesty and fair play, when I see that doesnt happen it effects me deeply. You offer us no hope, is it really just going to one continous cycle over and over again. No solutions anything Lone Shark? Cant we break the boundaries like Ted Kennedy did in the senate?

[Lone Shark]

If you are a true democrat, which most people are (I'm having second thoughts myself to be honest), then the whole point is that it's not fair to have a solution. This isn't a bad system that has been imposed against our will, this is what people want. People in this country don't vote for politicians in the truest sense of the word, they vote for personal concierges who are stealing from the till, but they don't care because they don't make the link between the till and our money.

This is democracy for you. We could be better off, but deep down, all wealth is relative (the Celtic tiger proved that above all) and Paddy and Mary Irishperson would prefer to be less well off collectively as long as they get to pull a stroke somewhere along the line and feel like they got one up on their neighbours.

Call it colonialism or whatever, but it's who we are.

[lynchbhoy]

the only answer is a revolution !
but we are all now too soft and have 'too much to lose' to do anything about it - despite what Shamrock shore says!

The good politicians are hamstrung by their parties and their interparty colleagues and counterparts.
If someone tried to blow the whistle or buck the trend, they would be ostracised and some measures would be taken to ensure that they didnt get re-elected or maybe not even allowed to stand and their only option then would be as an independant (though they carry some sway at times - the indos voting for FF to give them majority in last election proved).
So the future is bleak for any brave decent TD that wants to try to resolve corruption.
They can only do their good work below the parapets.



the only answer is a revolution !

[deiseach]

If you are a true democrat, which most people are (I'm having second thoughts myself to be honest), then the whole point is that it's not fair to have a solution. This isn't a bad system that has been imposed against our will, this is what people want. People in this country don't vote for politicians in the truest sense of the word, they vote for personal concierges who are stealing from the till, but they don't care because they don't make the link between the till and our money.

This is democracy for you. We could be better off, but deep down, all wealth is relative (the Celtic tiger proved that above all) and Paddy and Mary Irishperson would prefer to be less well off collectively as long as they get to pull a stroke somewhere along the line and feel like they got one up on their neighbours.

Call it colonialism or whatever, but it's who we are.

You've always had an interesting line on Irish politics, LS, but this reeks of cut & paste. It has been a trope beloved of political animals in Ireland for God-knows-how-long that people would vote for a yellow dog if FF put them up. Well, unless something dramatic happens in the next couple of years we are going to see something dramatic in the next couple of years: FF electoral meltdown. Analyses of us as a 'race' which exclude the probability of the party of power being reduced at the next election to a loose collection of petty chieftains need to consider intergrating that possibility into their thinking.

[Billys Boots]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we voted for them.  Our politicians are, as Lone Shark says, a reflection of us.

[Main Street]

Speak for yourselves sinners.
The integrity of my soul is intact.

[deiseach]

Speak for yourselves sinners.
The integrity of my soul is intact.

Better a sinner than a Shinner

[Farrandeelin]

the only answer is a revolution !
but we are all now too soft and have 'too much to lose' to do anything about it - despite what Shamrock shore says!

The good politicians are hamstrung by their parties and their interparty colleagues and counterparts.
If someone tried to blow the whistle or buck the trend, they would be ostracised and some measures would be taken to ensure that they didnt get re-elected or maybe not even allowed to stand and their only option then would be as an independant (though they carry some sway at times - the indos voting for FF to give them majority in last election proved).
So the future is bleak for any brave decent TD that wants to try to resolve corruption.
They can only do their good work below the parapets.



the only answer is a revolution !

If we were France, Leinster House would be burnt down long ago.

[deiseach]

the only answer is a revolution !

If we were France, Leinster House would be burnt down long ago.

Yeah, they'd never tolerate political corruption in France . . .

[Zapatista]

I can't help but feel the Irish people get to much credit when it comes to this.

I'm of the impression that FF are that good at electioneering that many of the public have no idea how they were duped. FF are masters of manipulation. Just take Bertie Ahern for example. That man has played a huge part in destroying this Country yet the FF machine knew exactly how to play it. They went on a black campaign against his opponents and painted Ahern out to be a victim. It was huge, the guy was in tears on National TV. For some reason Kenny came out looking worse than Ahern. It's not Just our politicans it's the FF machine. The people they have on the inside of every organisation of influence from your GAA club to RTE, from the HSE to the Gardai. Your average voting Joe has no idea of how many angels the are being worked from by FF. The might of FF electioneering and the reach of thier power was evident in the Lisbon debate. It was no coincidence that the main media print and broadcast, business, Union, high profile public figure came out in support of Lisbon. It got a little scary watching them in action.

I often shook my head in disbelief at how the Irish people can continue to support FF. I am now in no doubt of how that happened. It's the innocence of the Irish people that FF have preyed on.