John O'Donoghue -& his expenses

[BerfArmagh]

I think the whole episode has highlighted that Kenny simply is'nt a credible alternative as Taiosaich. He was caught sleeping again & totally outmanouvered by Gilmore. I think the fact is none of the opposition want a general election until the mid-end next year. The general consensus is Fianna Fail are dead men walking, but it makes sense for them to make the hard decisions for cuts etc... as they'll be going anyway....

I have to say Cowen has to be the worst Taisaich in living memory, he seems to be in hiding & totally incapable of leading or stamping any authority on anything. Suprising as i felt when he got in he would be great. Lenihan will be the next leader of FF.

[magpie seanie]

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

Didnt see Stiglitz, but know he's against Obamas recovery initiatives as he deems them to be too pro-banker.

Did he give an alternative plan or just have a go at NAMA? Who's to say he's right rather than the economists who think NAMA is the best way forward? Nobody actually knows what to do, and only a few have come up with workable theories. NAMA could work out well, mightnt cost the taxpayer a penny - or it could be a total disaster that bankrupts us.

I'd like to see FG in government, but who's to say they'd implement a plan similar to Stiglitz (if he had a plan and it was a good one) rather than their own plan, which personally I think is worse than NAMA. As I said its not as if any of the politicians on any side know what the answer is.

I agree with LoneShark on this. Actually saw that guy on Prime time and he said it was utter rubbish to suggest the whole financial system would collapse if the government didn't intervene. He said that the market would adjust and renew and we shouldn't fall for another cycle of bankers raping the taxpayer. Seemed like sense to me.

Stopping NAMA is the most important thing and the Greens are our only hope. God help us.

[tyronefan]

you get what you vote for, heard the Kerry people interviewed on the radio this morning and they reckon that O Donoghue is a lovely man and sure they are all at it up there in Dublin, why pick on O Donoghue.

[orangeman]

I think the whole episode has highlighted that Kenny simply is'nt a credible alternative as Taiosaich. He was caught sleeping again & totally outmanouvered by Gilmore. I think the fact is none of the opposition want a general election until the mid-end next year. The general consensus is Fianna Fail are dead men walking, but it makes sense for them to make the hard decisions for cuts etc... as they'll be going anyway....

I have to say Cowen has to be the worst Taisaich in living memory, he seems to be in hiding & totally incapable of leading or stamping any authority on anything. Suprising as i felt when he got in he would be great. Lenihan will be the next leader of FF.

Cowen is bad enough - Having Kenny as Taoiseah would be disaster of all disasters.

The country is in a shambles and FG don't want an election until all the cuts / snips are made just so as they don't have to get theirs hands dirty.

[SLIGONIAN]

You know im out of the country but Im raging at this fella. I read the independant online everyday, and today it states this fella, claimed 1 POUND in expenses paid to Unicef as a donation on his part from checking out of hotel. The cheek of that is unreal. Its just shows you they dont give a fck about us not a fck.

I lived in Dubai for a while and your one Mary Coughlan came over, her expenses says she stayed in 800EURO night hotel, now Dubai is rich but 800 EURO your talking 7 stars, Burj Al Arab ffs, loads of normal hotels are 5 star and 120EURO a night. Her excuse at the time was "I brought back 40 million euro worth of investment" Ya you did it. ...

Dont expect their consitituate to be up in arms either, when I lived in Letterkenny despite all the stuff mcdaid got up to it was ignored as he spent loads of money in North Donegal as Sports minister.

The reason none of the opposition shout to loudly is because if they get looked at aswell you see they been on the gravy train,

The MAIN PROBLEM is the parameters for expenses, and the enforcing of those parameters. It should be reviewed by a private company and enforced by a private co. Once its inhouse with civil servants not much transparency there. The ELECTORATE  cant fcking tolerate this. Why are we so quiet? Why isnt there CIVIL UNREST? If this was France there would be. If you lose your house, etc...... people have to fight this disease and make these fckers walk the plank. There laughing at us with all there entitlements and pensions and bringing the country to its toes and they dont give a fck.

In the private sector you get a bonus when perform well and feck all at that, Why is it in the Public sector gross bad performance gets you a 1m euro bonus across all sectors? Why is bad performance rewarded, who was responsible for writing the contracts with golden handshakes? Why is that tolerated by the ELECTORATE?

These fckers are getting away with murder. Rant over.

[Zapatista]

Cowen is bad enough - Having Kenny as Taoiseah would be disaster of all disasters.

Unless the Greens pull the pin on NAMA Kenny won't be Taoiseah. If the Greens alllow Government to continue Kenny won't lead FG to the next election.

[Maroon Heaven]

[Hound]

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

Didnt see Stiglitz, but know he's against Obamas recovery initiatives as he deems them to be too pro-banker.

Did he give an alternative plan or just have a go at NAMA? Who's to say he's right rather than the economists who think NAMA is the best way forward? Nobody actually knows what to do, and only a few have come up with workable theories. NAMA could work out well, mightnt cost the taxpayer a penny - or it could be a total disaster that bankrupts us.

I'd like to see FG in government, but who's to say they'd implement a plan similar to Stiglitz (if he had a plan and it was a good one) rather than their own plan, which personally I think is worse than NAMA. As I said its not as if any of the politicians on any side know what the answer is.

I agree with LoneShark on this. Actually saw that guy on Prime time and he said it was utter rubbish to suggest the whole financial system would collapse if the government didn't intervene. He said that the market would adjust and renew and we shouldn't fall for another cycle of bankers raping the taxpayer. Seemed like sense to me.

Stopping NAMA is the most important thing and the Greens are our only hope. God help us.

An intervention of the Greens wouldnt stop NAMA, would it? Would just mean a different version implemented by FG/Lab?

To my knowledge not one Irish economist (never mind Irish politician) has said that we should no nothing and the market will fix everything.

From the moment the financial crisis took hold it has seemed that "everybody" (whether it be the media, the "man on the street" or internet warriors like us) has been screaming at the government - "do something, do anything". Its near impossible to run a business of any size without access to bank funds, the banks almost completely stopped lending and thus we're into a seemingly never ending cycle of things getting worse and worse.

FF, FG and Labour all came up with different plans, all of which contain some pain - as any such plan would.

Now suddenly we've an expert saying "Do nothing - the market will look after everything".

It might be the best idea, I've no clue. But I do know if the government had decided on that plan, there would be a plethora of experts on Prime Time saying that doing nothing means no activity will take place means a deeper and longer lasting recession.

There's no easy way out of this mess, and I don't know if its true that FG don't want an election, but I wouldnt blame them. Kenny's not the man to lead us out of recession, but I havent heard any rumblings of a FG leadership contest (maybe Zap has?).

But everybody needs to accept some pain. Its all very well everyone saying the government has to have the bottle to take the hard decisions - but then as quick as a significant cut is made, there's uproar - "you can't cut that, its too important".

[Main Street]

Gilmore got cornered on RTE this morning, got caught off guard, took a battering to which his responses were incoherent mumbles. I was left in serious doubt about his integrity on these matters.
The question related to that all this time he has had a party member (Pat Rabbitte? on the committee that reviews O'Donoghue's expenses,
why were these expenses not flagged?
did Rabbitte not consult with him about these outrageous claims?

[Captain Scarlet]

did anyone hear thye bauld paidi o'se on newstalk earlier. he was saying that as a statesman o'donoghue was hardly expected to go and stay in 3 star hotels, he has done so much for ireland, he is a great man, he was in my pub once and blah blah blah. oh yea he also put paidi on the failte ireland board, which was nice.
paidi would be a fan of the aul expenses same as his FF brother it must be said.

[magpie seanie]

Hound - one of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again. That's well accepted except by Lenihan who says they will becasue they told him they would. Listening to the bankers has served us well hasn't it. 

On another of your points I don't think many people would mind a bit of pain if they thought it would solve the problems. Thing is practically everyone knows the idiots incompetents (they're not idiots, just unfit for purpose bar lining their own pockets) we have in charge have no clue what to do and are taking no pain themselves (I do not accept that a pay cut when you are spending none of your wages is pain).

Finally to say Kenny isn't the man to lead us out of the recession might be true but Cowen definitely isn't (unless a batten down the hatches and hope Obama sorts it out approach can be described as leadership). Kenny has lots of faults and I wouldn't necessarily have much faith in him but at least I get the impression he has one or two bright people around him.

[lynchbhoy]

Hound - one of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again. That's well accepted except by Lenihan who says they will becasue they told him they would. Listening to the bankers has served us well hasn't it. 

I spoke to lenihan recently and he said that his main problem at the moment was to try and make the banks start lending again - that it would def keep heads above water and maybe kickstart things.

I'd have thought that after all the bailout and promises that we could have insisted that the fcukers did start lending- or at least the gov bank (anglo) would do this.
Unfortunately I only thought of saying this to him afterwards !

there are only two of the current crop of politicians that might be good enough as taoiseach - richard bruton or dermot ahearn - with either micheal martin or gilmore at a stretch.
How about this dark horse - a returning charlie mccreevy to charge in on his white horse and provide the cut throat leadership that the country needs.
We dont need more of the same and self gratification and embezzlement thats been going on.

I also think things would rectify themselves, however it would take longer- as nama is merely a publicity stunt (an expensive one) - but doing nothing would make people clam up for a longer period and we wouldnt have the 'green shoots' that are currently being seen out there at the moment (imo from what I have witnessed in recent weeks )

[Rossie11]

one of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again

That too is my major issue with NAMA.
20% of NAMAs total bill is been used to bail out Irish Nationwide
8billion to prop up a bank who dont lend to SME's will do nothing to kickstart the economy.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

From the Irish Times:


                        ***************************************************

State 'squandering' money - Stiglitz

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz said the Government is "squandering" public money with its plan to establish the National Assets Management Agency (Nama).

Minister for Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said last month the Government will spend €54 billion buying up loans with a face value of €77 billion. The current market value of the loans is some €47 billion.

The €7 billion difference takes into account the properties' "long-term economic value", Mr Lenihan said.

"The Irish Government is squandering large amounts of money to bail out banks," Mr Stiglitz said at conference in Dublin today. "There's a sort of a view that there's no alternative."

That view is "nonsense", Mr Stiglitz said. "The rule of capitalism says that when firms can't pay what they owe, they go bankrupt."

"It's a massive transfer of money from the public to bankers," he said today.

Mr Stiglitz, a professor at Columbia University in New York, told RTÉ's Prime Time last night that overpaying for the loans was "criminal".

Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton welcomed the intervention of Prof Stiglitz.

"Together with George Soros, Professor Stiglitz is one of the prominent advocates of Fine Gael's 'good bank' solution to fixing the banks. He joins financier Dermot Desmond, commentator David McWilliams, and Michael O'Sullivan of Credit Suisse Private Bank, among others," Mr Bruton said.

"The approach outlined by Professor Stiglitz leaves the risk and responsibility for working out toxic developer loans with the bankers who made them, and the investors who funded them, while also ensuring that a cleansed and healthy banking system is ready to restart lending.

"There is still an opportunity to ditch the massive Nama gamble and adopt Fine Gael's safer and more effective solution to fixing the banks by setting up a National Recovery Bank," Mr Bruton added.

                        ***************************************************


The €47BN is pure fantasy, never mind the €54BN, which is insult on injury -- perhaps €40BN would have been a more realistic valuation of the current value of those loans (especially with the Carroll judgement of yesterday), or even lower. And that's the problem, the whole fecking thing is guesswork with NAMA, with the taxpayer carrying the risk, as if there hasn't been enough state-sponsored gambling already.

[Declan]

dermot ahearn - with either micheal martin or gilmore at a stretch.
How about this dark horse - a returning charlie mccreevy to charge in on his white horse and provide the cut throat leadership that the country needs.

Stop smoking that funny stuff LB it'll only damage you!!