Penalties in gaelic football

[sammymaguire]

Penalties are too difficult and fail to punish the culprit -- it pays to foul

How many times over the past few years has this column mentioned the unfair rules surrounding the award and taking of penalties in Gaelic football?

When you compare the requirement to that in soccer, it seems downright wrong and no doubt the statistics support this. Gaelic football penalties are just too difficult and fail to punish the team that concedes them. The rectangle in which the foul must occur is too small, the goals too narrow and the ball placed too far away. The goalkeeper advances even though it is against rule and most of the players in the immediate vicinity of a penalty break every other rule in the book to gain advantage.

The underlining issue is the conversion rate and the question of whether it is clever to foul and take your chances. The All-Ireland final programme carried some tidy analysis in this regard and proves beyond all doubt that fouling pays. Not only that, referees, once they have awarded the penalty, rarely if ever sanction the culprit, no matter how savage the tackle.

The evidence then: 14 penalties were awarded in the 2009 championship and 9 goals were scored (total of 27 points) giving a return of 1.93 points per kick when the expectation should be much closer to 3 points. The previous year was worse: in 2008 referees blew for 16 penalties but they yielded 9 goals and 1 point (28 points in total) for an average of 1.75 points per kick. Irrefutable evidence then that it does pay to foul.

If you want to make a name for yourself why not frame a motion for your club's AGM and see if it reaches the floor of Congress. You might consider matters such as taking the kick from a spot 11m from the goal instead of the current 13m. Or what about increasing the size of the large rectangle both in length and breath?

With defences beginning to dominate due to new tactical formations goals are beginning to dry up. Kerry failed to have a single shot at the goal target in the senior final and Tommy Griffen can attribute the Cork goal, brilliant as it was, to a slip. Need I remind you that last Sunday both minor teams failed to trouble the umpires in charge of the green flags? Get drafting.

- kevin mcstay

the man has a point

[Aerlik]

In one of our games this year, one of our men was clean through and the keeper rugby-tackled him.  He got the penalty but when asked if the keeper was going to be carded, the ref replied that he got the penalty, wasn't that enough.

I got grief for booking a player after a similar thing in a game I reffed.  "ah ref, you can't book him, sure he's an Aussie and doesn' know the rules"  Well, feckin teach him the rules.

[Zapatista]

I'm sick of comparisons to soccer. Why is soccer the standard that has to be met? The GAA leads the way in sports in Ireland and should not be comparable to another sport. That doesn't mean we can't take ideas from them.We are well able to look at the faults in our games and correct them as needed. If our own rules are not enforced while taken a penalty then that is something we don't need soccer to highlight. The Major difference in scoring between the GAA and soccer make the effect of a goal incomparable with soccer.

[magpie seanie]

Comparisons to soccer aside I actually agree with Kevin McStay (can't believe I just said that). It is always the right decision to foul a lad rather than give him a free shot at goal. A penalty is little more than a 50/50 shot so its a good bet to foul. I don'tthink that should remain the case. I'd agree with bringing the penalty spot in.

[brokencrossbar1]

Where someone gives away a penalty for a foul, there should be an immediate yellow card.  It may well be hard for the ref in some circumstances where there are 3-4 lads around a player but that is where the ref uses his judgement.  It is not the same as a professional foul in soccer but is an alternative.

I think McHale is getting a bit carried away with it.  His return ratio is closes to 66%.  If every team had a place kicker who guaranteed them 66% of all place kicks within scoring range i reckon they would be happy enough.

[Zapatista]

Because someone is fouled in the small rectangle does not mean they would have scored a goal if they weren't. They might have had a shot on goal which is what a penalty is.

I don't get why the expectation should be nearer 3 points. A return of 1.9 isn't bad. Why does he think it should be nearer 3?

[OverThePostsAWide]

Comparisons to soccer aside I actually agree with Kevin McStay (can't believe I just said that). It is always the right decision to foul a lad rather than give him a free shot at goal. A penalty is little more than a 50/50 shot so its a good bet to foul. I don'tthink that should remain the case. I'd agree with bringing the penalty spot in.

The stats quoted previously for the championship don't even support that. More like 2:1. Which is what I would reckon is a fair reflection on club penalties I have seen over recent years too - about 2 out of 3 are scored. 25 years ago I would say the ratio was closer to 1 out of 3 scored and was often a curse for the team that got the award - the dramatic shift from elation to dispair often did the team awarded the penalty in!

Quite often - although I wouldn't have a feel for figures on it - penalties are awarded when there is probably a less than 2:1 chance of scoring a goal. Players being clumsily bundled over when they are moving away from a good line and/or being well covered by the keeper; foot blocks when there are other bodies in the way anyway, etc. etc. Not to mention technical fouls in the small rectangle (keeper over carrying, outfield player lifting off the ground, etc.)

Penalties are fine as they are. Enforce the "keeper staying on his line" and "players 14m from the ball" rules and implement yellow/red cards when merited for the foul. The penalty is to reward the team being infringed, the cards are to punish the individual who transgresses. The two should independant!

And sure haven't the goal areas got bigger by nearly 4% anyway since the GAA went metric? 16.25m² vs 168ft² (=15.6m²)

As for McStay, God help us...

[Zapatista]

Can ye award a penalty for a technical foul? Is it not a 14 yard free?

[under the bar]

The goalkeeper advances even though it is against rule and most of the players in the immediate vicinity of a penalty break every other rule in the book to gain advantage.

Heaving spent more of my school & club playing time in goal I can agree with what you are saying.  I found that by advancing while the player took his run up and jumping to save forwards as well as to the side on about a 40 degree angle I could save 4/5 provided I guessed the right way. 

The angle for the player taking the peno is just too tight if the keeper advances.  Unless the ball is kicked as a rocket daisy-cutter (á la Stevie O'Neill) the keeper's almost certain to get a hand to it.

[Denn Forever]

The penalty is never properly policed i.e.  The goalkeeper is allowed to move along the line but is NOT allowed to advance from the line until the kick is taken.

Easy enough to do with the referee standing on the endline and the linesmen coming in to ensure that players are outside the semicircle or whatever rules apply.

As a former goalkeeper, I was never pulled up for leaving the line before the ball was kicked. 

Apply the rules and a penalty is a proper sanction.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Can ye award a penalty for a technical foul? Is it not a 14 yard free?

Aggressive Foul in the large parallelogram or Technical Foul in the small parallelogram = penalty
Technical Foul in the large parallelogram outside of the small parallelogram = 13m free

Jeez, what hope have referees of a fair hearing if you don't lknow that! 

[OverThePostsAWide]

The penalty is never properly policed i.e.  The goalkeeper is allowed to move along the line but is NOT allowed to advance from the line until the kick is taken.

Easy enough to do with the referee standing on the endline and the linesmen coming in to ensure that players are outside the semicircle or whatever rules apply.

As a former goalkeeper, I was never pulled up for leaving the line before the ball was kicked. 

Apply the rules and a penalty is a proper sanction.

Referees not properly applying clear rules is a problem full stop. When is the last time you saw a hop-ball properly implemented? i.e. everybody bar the two competing for the hop being 13m away? I was at a match recently where a third player was allowed to come in and catch the ball before it hit the ground - and that was with a county-level referee officiating! 

[playwiththewind1st]

Have you ever stood back & waited [& waited & waited] for players to move back 13m before you hopped a ball ?

No matter how many times you tell them to get back & that you mean 13m & not 13cm, you're just wasting your breathe, imho.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Have you ever stood back & waited [& waited & waited] for players to move back 13m before you hopped a ball ?

No matter how many times you tell them to get back & that you mean 13m & not 13cm, you're just wasting your breathe, imho.

wait as long as it takes? Award a free, give out yellow cards, red cards, abandon the match if needs be 

So we should just shrug our shoulders and play on when players defy a referee's instructions and the rules? That's the road to anarchy.

Was at a match recently where the referee was very strict on opposition players encroaching into the 13m "D" for kick-outs from the 20m line. He gave several warnings and when they didn't listen he awarded a free where the ball landed ...60m up the field. The referee didn't get any grief but the full-forward did  It didn't happen a second time...

If a referee is "wasting his breath" then he should retire...

[Puckoon]

Sammy if Kevin McStay has a point he shouldn't be let take the fecking penalties!