Peter McKenna

[Hardy]

Tradition, it seems overrides everything and people's perceived right to go where they like and do what they want is more important than the right of others to do what they MUST, never mind their safety.

hmmm, its easy to throw the tradition argument back in someone's face saying we need to move on and stop being backwoods. But where do you draw the line?

to hell with that I say. The day the GAA abandons tradition is the day I abandon the GAA. The organisation is build on tradition. The organisation embraces tradition. So to dismiss tradition is to tend towards double-standards.

BT, that's taking spin to a new dimension. What I questioned was the raising of tradition to be sacrosanct. Where did I use the term "backwoods"? Where did I suggest abandoning tradition? Where did I dismiss tradition?

To hell with that, you say. Fair enough - but "that" is something you made up to shoot down, not anything I said.

It was just a general point about how sometimes 'tradition' gets belittled and how sometimes those who do value it can get branded as being in the wrong. Thats all.

Fair enough. I'd say we occupy different positions in the spectrum of regard for tradition OK.

[Bud Wiser]

The problem is, there are not just tradidional standards to be conformed with now, there are European Standards as well.  At one time they tried to bring in an International Standard for Stadiums. I am not sure, I don't know and I am not saying I am right but I would assume that Croke Park being the stadium of its size would have to conform to the same European Standards as in the Premiership in terms of H&S and for Insurance.  I subscribe to an International Security Magazine A&S International.  In March this year they did a special edition on Stadiums.  There were plenty of reasons in there why I can see where Peter McKenna is coming from.

Jinxy says, treat people like human beings and they will act accordingly.  Right, lets take one situation on the basis that everyone going into Croke Park is a human being and Peter McKenna says, " Ok, listen up all you human beings out there, today is All-Ireland Final day and we want no flares or dangerous fireworks to be brought into Croke Park because they might take the eye out of someone or cause a panic and get someone trampled to death".  A drunken fan, or worse, a coke head with flares is not an ordinary thinking human being, and please don't tell me there aren't any in the GAA.

I am too lazy to find the relevant article from the magazine I have hard copy of but if anyone is interested they can look through the articles here: http://www.asmag.com/article_search_list.aspx?a=2&b=stadium

One interesting idea in the copy I had was that they put up a text number on the big screen during matches and for example, if you are in the middle of a crowd of yobos with a child and someone is creating a danger you text the area where you are in to the number and security are sent there when a number of texts pop up on their screen.  Security sitting on their arses around the pitch have no idea of what is happening until its over.  Ok, so by now you can't wait to get your fingers on the keyboard again to tell me Croke Park is a gaa pitch not a soccer pitch but if you think for one minute that there are not a very small minority of potential trouble makers going to Croke Park then I disagree.  A very small minority are enough to create a dangerous situation.  I appreciate the "tradition" thing but at least let them try the alternative firt and then criticise it because it was going to be different than when it was triied before.

[Jinxy]

With regard to treating people like human beings Bud I'm talking about a crowd situation. I'm well aware that in an attendance of 82,000  there will be a good few complete dickheads. The proportion varies from county to county but we are dealing with nothing like the scale of crowd trouble that soccer has to deal with. Even domestic soccer.

[Bud Wiser]

Well there you have it, you agree that there are a good few plonkers out there and I am not specifically talking about Dub's, they are from every county including my own.  And what I am saying is that when the final whistle blows and some of these lads are at the back and they see others running onto the pitch all they care about is doing the same and do it they will because they do not care who they push, who they shove or climb over on the way. When someone tells me not to leave my poor granny sitting in front of one of the gates it implies that all these pitch invaders walk calmly down the aisles and out the gates onto the pitch, they don't, they climb over anything and everyone.  I did not have a problem with the old tradition as it is referred to here but I am honestly caught betwen two stools on this one in that the way it was announced was wrong and there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if nothing at all had been said there would have been less on the pitch because I detected a form of protest in what happened on Sunday.  I see your point too Jinxy and while I was on a windup earlier I feel the answer is to at least give the stadium director a chance to see what he has to offer but if Peter McKenna can not decide what is right it should not be decided by force and safety announcements should be obeyed.

[orangeman]

If the terracing is the problem, then do away with it. Everybody will sit in their seat and not be inclined to get out of it.


Bye,bye Hill 16 - or would that be going against so called tradition ?

[antoinse]

Lads and lassies, Thank you for your contributions and myself  and Dessie less that Kavanagh fella, will soon make an announcement regarding the crowd control in Croke Park. By the way, somebody asked earlier where I worked before and to tell the truth it was a while ago and I think it was for Mr. Smurfit. Thank God the Dubs were not in the hurling and thank God again they are not in the football final. We have to get the control right before they get into another final, if ever.
I really enjoyed the comments and it has given me a great deal to ponder before I meet with my friend Dessie and make the final decision - the others don't count. The draft document is changing as fast as the draft NAMA document and like FF we might have to let the minnows have their say before we bully push it through.
By the way Bud we can accomodate your granny in a safe seat if at any time she feels uncomfortable. Thanks again for your sincere and informed comments

[rolloutking]

When someone runs out onto the pitch after the game, where there is a good chance they could get crushed, it's their choice to put themselves in that situation and no-one else's so how can they claim against injury.

What ever happened in the years before the redeveloped Croke Park. Were there no claims back then or where they just swept under the carpet?

[GalwayBayBoy]

What ever happened in the years before the redeveloped Croke Park. Were there no claims back then or where they just swept under the carpet?

Ireland was a much different place back then as far as litigation goes.

[orangeman]

What ever happened in the years before the redeveloped Croke Park. Were there no claims back then or where they just swept under the carpet?

Ireland was a much different place back then as far as litigation goes.

[/b]


That's right - you could get the shite knocked out of if you were lucky and worse if you were unlucky, and if you had have went home and told who did it, your parents would have give you another kicking !

[Bud Wiser]

Lads and lassies, Thank you for your contributions and myself  and Dessie less that Kavanagh fella, will soon make an announcement regarding the crowd control in Croke Park. By the way, somebody asked earlier where I worked before and to tell the truth it was a while ago and I think it was for Mr. Smurfit. Thank God the Dubs were not in the hurling and thank God again they are not in the football final. We have to get the control right before they get into another final, if ever.
I really enjoyed the comments and it has given me a great deal to ponder before I meet with my friend Dessie and make the final decision - the others don't count. The draft document is changing as fast as the draft NAMA document and like FF we might have to let the minnows have their say before we bully push it through.
By the way Bud we can accomodate your granny in a safe seat if at any time she feels uncomfortable. Thanks again for your sincere and informed comments

Thanks very much Peter, I guess all of us at this stage have said all we wanted to say on this topic.  I will see you for luncn next Monday or Tuesday in the usual corner of the Croke Park Hotel for a bite.  If you can manage another ticket for the Granny it would be great but as I told you the last day, she has to be near an aisle seat for to make  the quick dart to the johns because of that oul incontinence thing.

[antoinse]

Bud, for you loyal defence of me I cannot refuse your plea. I hope your granny God bless he does not bring her friend she had with her at the Leinster final. The insurance claims rose dramatically because of the eratic use of her bloody knitting needles. Yes, I look forward to lunch again and can you make it Tuesday as we don't open on the Monday after an AIF.  You should know by now that that is the day we count the blades of grass.

[johnneycool]

If the terracing is the problem, then do away with it. Everybody will sit in their seat and not be inclined to get out of it.


Bye,bye Hill 16 - or would that be going against so called tradition ?

There's still a few years left in the hill yet as the Dubs won't want to see it's demise just yet plus the GAA know they can pack it full on big days and the tickets would be a bit cheaper but you'd not pull in the same revenue if it was seated.

Money talks even if safety wise it'd make sense.

[orangeman]

If the terracing is the problem, then do away with it. Everybody will sit in their seat and not be inclined to get out of it.


Bye,bye Hill 16 - or would that be going against so called tradition ?

There's still a few years left in the hill yet as the Dubs won't want to see it's demise just yet plus the GAA know they can pack it full on big days and the tickets would be a bit cheaper but you'd not pull in the same revenue if it was seated.

Money talks even if safety wise it'd make sense.

It couldn't be about money could it ? No chance. It's all to do with tradition. 

[ONeill]

The end of championship on-field rampage is one of the greatest sights of the GAA calender. Unbridled joy when player and fan are equal. And you can get an oul grope from estatic women from Meath/Cork/Kerry/Tyrone.

[SLIGONIAN]

PETER MCKENNAS STAFF ASSAULTING FANS, PETER any chance of a comment on the below eye witness account,

Comerford slams Croke Park security "thugs"
11 September 2009

Former Kilkenny star Andy Comerford has labelled the treatment of Cats fans at Headquarters on All-Ireland final day as "disgraceful".

There were unsettling scenes on Jones Road as Black & Amber supporters poured onto the pitch to hail the historic four-in-a-row, and Comerford was not impressed by the heavy-handed tactics employed by security staff:

"It was absolutely scandalous. I looked down from the Cusack Stand after the match and I saw two or three of them thugs man-handling young lads and kicking them on the ground.

"It was absolutely disgraceful.

"The fans are as important as the players. I looked down at one stage and three lads were man-handling one young lad. They tossed him back into Hill 16 like he was a piece of paper.

"I'd like to know what the GAA top brass would say if one of their young fellas was treated like that. Young fellas are going to run onto the pitch after winning an All-Ireland"