Dublin Cryers

[Boozehell]

Dubs seek change to qualifier format

Disappointed Dublin fans
19 August 2009


Dublin are considering submitting a motion to next year's Congress proposing that the All-Ireland football qualifier format be tweaked in order to aid provincial champions.

Despite winning the last five Leinster football titles, the Dubs have failed to progress further than the All-Ireland semi-finals, leading to suggestions that they would be better off taking the qualifier route in their quest for All-Ireland glory.



It has been argued that the provincial champions are at a distinct disadvantage to qualifier teams because they haven't got the luxury of a second chance. Dublin haven't benefited from the qualifiers since 2004 when, after losing to Westmeath in Leinster, they regrouped to reach the All-Ireland quarter-finals.

And now the qualifier issue is set to be discussed at the next meeting of the Dublin county board on September 7.

"There is an anomaly there," Dublin chairman Gerry Harrington said.

"If teams lose up to the provincial finals, they have a second chance, but if you win your province and then lose a quarter-final, you're out."

This article was taken from the Hoganstand website.

Is there anything the Dublin County Board Won't do to try and win an All Ireland.  If the get to an All Ireland Final (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) and get beat they will probaly cry that there was something wrong and that an Ulster Team should not be allowed win it.

[Zulu]

Is there anything the Dublin County Board Won't do to try and win an All Ireland.  If the get to an All Ireland Final (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) and get beat they will probaly cry that there was something wrong and that an Ulster Team should not be allowed win it.

Are you under the impression that Ulster teams are guaranteed an AI spot? For the record I agree with the Dublin CB's point, it seems unfair that a provincal winner has no second chance while everyone else does.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

And in fairness, the Dubs aren't the first to point this anomaly up -- it needs changing.

[longrunsthefox]

Is there anything the Dublin County Board Won't do to try and win an All Ireland.  If the get to an All Ireland Final (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) and get beat they will probaly cry that there was something wrong and that an Ulster Team should not be allowed win it.

Are you under the impression that Ulster teams are guaranteed an AI spot? For the record I agree with the Dublin CB's point, it seems unfair that a provincal winner has no second chance while everyone else does.

They need to dry their eyes... All Irelands are being won through front and back doors. This is a cop out

[stephenite]

Two provincial champions still in it - so if you're good enough........ but he has a point.

The whole notion of provincial championships is ridiculous since the back door was introduced. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the system I feel, a champions league type format with teams grouped into pools - straight knock out from quarter finals on.

[AZOffaly]

I know what you are saying Zulu, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I think it's fair enough if we treat the Provincials as almost a seperate competition. Winning that competition gives you guaranteed entry to the All Ireland Competition, which is knock out from day 1.

It could be said that Tyrone or Cork should have a second chance if they lose on Sunday, because they have only lost once as well. Where do you start?

I think it's sensible enough. You enter your provincial championship, and if you lose in that competition, you enter the All Ireland at an early stage. If you win the provincial championship, you enter at the quarter final stage.

However from Qualifier Round 1 all the way through to the AIF, the All Ireland competition is pure knock out.

[Boozehell]

If there is to be an eventual rule change there can be only 1.  Go back to the good old days and abandon the back door system and have all teams have to win instead of saying aww sure don't worry if we lose we are in to the back door.

[BerfArmagh]

why don't you replace the league with the provincial championship. i.e in Ulsters case, each team would have 8 matches, league winner is then provincial champion. Then have an open draw for the all ireland

[Zulu]

I posted my preferred system here before and it involves connecting the league and championship but that isn't likely to ever come to pass. In the mean time we should have a balanced championship and this involves getting rid of the provincal championships at a minimum, while we wait for that inevitable step I feel we must do something to avoid situations where losing in you provinces is proably an advantage.

[umgolaarmagh]

why don't you replace the league with the provincial championship. i.e in Ulsters case, each team would have 8 matches, league winner is then provincial champion. Then have an open draw for the all ireland

good idea berfa

[brokencrossbar1]

The provincial Championships should be maintained as seprate competitions and used as a seeding mechansim for the All ireland.  Scrap the league and divide the teams into groups of 4 a la the Champions league based on the seeding from provincials.  Play home and away games to determine top 2 and bottom 2.  Top two go into last last 16 open draw knockout for Sam, bottom 2 go into same thing for Tommy Murphy Cup.  Each county guaranteed 8 competitive games a year and at least then the whole thing could be more structured and the club games can be properly fitted in around the calender.

[johnneycool]

The back door was first introduced to allow a team more than one game in the championship, i.e. if you beat in the first round then you got a qualifier, otherwise every other team had won their first game so worse case everyone would get at least two games. If you lost the second game then the championship was over for you. Over time this has spiralled out of control with beaten provincial finalists who've maybe played and won 3 to 4 games to get that far also getting a second bite at the cherry.

Dublin do have a point but to level the playing field I'd just give the teams beat on their first outing a second go but then when and how would you reintroduce them into the AI championship proper?

Time for a seeded open draw with the seeding based on league standings..

[AZOffaly]

That's not a bad idea BC1. The given there is that if you expand the championship like that, the Leagues must be scrapped, and the Provincials would have to start a lot earlier.

[Shamrock Shore]

No provincial council will vote to abolish/diminish its championship

Too many self interests - like esp in Leinster where Leinster Council has all that lovely Dub money to hand out to third world counties.

[cornafean]

I would be strongly opposed to any move to give provincial winners a second chance in the All Ireland series. Apart altogether from making many quarter-finals meaningless, this move would, in the main, strongly favour the strongest counties, at the expense of those weaker counties that occasionally make a breakthrough to the quarter-finals via the qualifiers.

Its not surprising therefore that Tyrone have raised it as an issue in the past and now Dublin are doing the same, although its biggest beneficaries would be Kerry and Cork. On the other hand, it remains to be seen how much support there would be for this idea among the likes of Wexford, Fermanagh, Sligo, Westmeath, Limerick etc, whose chances of reaching a quarter-final would be halved unless they can manage the rare feat of winning a provincial title.