The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[general_lee]

Lennon with his poppy on display today.

Oh f**k me

I have an issue with a man from the nationalist community contributing to the Lee Clegg beer fund. Obviously you don't.

I honestly couldn't give a f**k who does or doesn't wear a poppy to be quite honest with you.he's not the first Celtic manager to wear one, he's not the first Celtic manager from the "nationalist" community to wear one. He's not the first Celtic manager from the north to wear one!

In the football world, there's no problem with chosing to wear the poppy, it's the hysteria and racist ethnic abuse directed at people who chose not to wear the poppy.

I think the poppy lost any sense of meaningfulness years ago. More often than not it's used to enforce nationalistic and jingoistic sentiments.I think the Roy Keanes, Paul o'connells of this world recognise that and just go along with it to avoid any controversy which is fair enough if it's something they don't feel that strong about. I don't see why Neil Lennon is any different

[illdecide]

I'll let you work this one out...NL was captain of N Ireland and no one had a problem with him(being a Catholic) nor batted an eyelid but the day he signed for Celtic everything changed. Why was that? He turned into the most hated man in this cesspit of a Country from bigoted f**kers and to makes things even worse there are a few so called Celtic fans that have turned on him too. Maybe he's just one of these guys people love to hate and i get that as I can think of a few people like that on the Board.

[6th sam]

The poppy is a traditional remembrance symbol for British armed forces. I respect and admire those with connections or even British patriots that wear them.
However, The amount of people that wear them on TV seems to be grossly disproportionate with those that otherwise wear them. This indicates to me that there is pressure to wear it, which in my mind undermines the message promoted by those who choose to wear it without pressure. Does anyone think that Roy Keane for example , heads down to the local shop to buy his poppy , in remembrance of the British Armed Forces? Does he keep it on after he leaves the studio? This is the same "patriotic" Roy who questioned Mick McCarthy's Irishness. Of course not, more likely he was about to go on screen and  the studio floor manager says stick that on you Roy, and Roy relented.  Roy, Paul, Neil etc etc may have their own reasons for wearing it , but nobody expects them  to explain it. McClean however was castigated, even iirc by a BBC TV presenter, gave a perfectly understandable explanation, and is subjected to racist abuse. The more people who succumb to the pressure to wear it , the more isolated James McClean becomes . Sadly I've heard more English people support McClean in the media , than Irish people .
What annoys me most , is that when people support his principled stance , they are labelled as being immature and living in the past. Irish identity here , for example , is supposed to be on an equal footing with British identity, since the GFA. Therefore we have a right to challenge assimilation of Irish people into British culture, norms and expectations .
However, I think we are getting into dangerous territory if we say that Celtic managers shouldn't wear it because it insults supporters. Celtic and every other club should be promoting choice rather than expectation , with regard to poppy wearing . If a Celtic manager wears a poppy as a chosen act of remembrance then that's his choice and should insult nobody . If he bows to pressure to wear it, that's another matter entirely.
Regarding NL, he has been subjected to horrendous abuse in the past, and I think Illdecide is right in saying this is not anti-catholic as he didn't get it before joining Celtic. Like mcclean it's actually anti-Irish . Therefore NL of all people should be well aware of the variable significance of the  poppy for many.
If NL , RK, PO'C wear the poppy as a heartfelt act of remembrance or recognition, fair play to them, and it's easy for them to explain that, to clear things up. I'd like to see them do that and also support McClean's principled stance.

[tonto1888]

Be no issue with those guys who choose to wear the poppy for their own reasons. That includes Neil Lennon. If he was forced to wear it for some reason, then that's a different matter. The same with the pundits. If they have no choice then that isn't on. Didn't Jon snow from channel 4 refer to it as poppy fascism a few years ago? Sums it up for me

[Milltown Row2]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

[6th sam]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

I genuinely don't get this. They weren't pressured into wearing it?
What actually happened was they went down to their local Spar and bought one and have been wearing it daily for the last 2 weeks?

[Milltown Row2]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

I genuinely don't get this. They weren't pressured into wearing it?
What actually happened was they went down to their local Spar and bought one and have been wearing it daily for the last 2 weeks?

No I reckon it was handed to them and they decided to wear it, they could have decided not too. That's their decision. I don't find it that difficult to understand.

Surely by now after all these years there would be some sort of 'poppy pressure' story coming out!

[6th sam]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

I genuinely don't get this. They weren't pressured into wearing it?
What actually happened was they went down to their local Spar and bought one and have been wearing it daily for the last 2 weeks?

No I reckon it was handed to them and they decided to wear it, they could have decided not too. That's their decision. I don't find it that difficult to understand.

Surely by now after all these years there would be some sort of 'poppy pressure' story coming out!

I don't think the head of the BBC are standing over presenters and forcefully pinning the poppy to their lapels. But I  Think it highly unlikely that many presenters buy their own poppy in the local shop . Therefore Its easy to assume that there is an unwritten policy of handing presenters poppies with the expectation that they wear one, presumably for presentation purposes. Many of these presenters/pundits probably think "anything for a quiet life" and thereby comply. The likes of McClean  then stands out for his principled stance. It's perhaps a microcosm of British/Irish history. Try to assimilate the Irish to British ways, many will comply, and those that don't are painted as unreasonable agitators. I respect British culture , but don't respect those that give it an elevated status .

[BennyCake]

The poppy should not be on football shirts, full stop.

I'd say a lot of players have a problem with British army and their wars, but wear one for "a quiet life". The few that don't stick out like a sore thumb.

I don't think there should be any poppy or Remembrance Day recognition at any sporting event. Whatever about remembering those who died in wars, the poppy is a decisive symbol. But if something is to be done, then a minute silence at Remembrance Day weekend matches.

I'm sure the likes of James McClean would respect that (whatever his stance on the poppy). A minute silence, players/fans/management respect the silence, and then play the game. Nobody will be singled out for not wearing a poppy. That is the reason why McClean gets sectarian abuse for the last 8 or 9 years, and the FA need to take the blame for it. But instead, they sit on their arses , say nothing and allow players like McClean take constant abuse.

[Milltown Row2]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

I genuinely don't get this. They weren't pressured into wearing it?
What actually happened was they went down to their local Spar and bought one and have been wearing it daily for the last 2 weeks?

No I reckon it was handed to them and they decided to wear it, they could have decided not too. That's their decision. I don't find it that difficult to understand.

Surely by now after all these years there would be some sort of 'poppy pressure' story coming out!

I don't think the head of the BBC are standing over presenters and forcefully pinning the poppy to their lapels. But I  Think it highly unlikely that many presenters buy their own poppy in the local shop . Therefore Its easy to assume that there is an unwritten policy of handing presenters poppies with the expectation that they wear one, presumably for presentation purposes. Many of these presenters/pundits probably think "anything for a quiet life" and thereby comply. The likes of McClean  then stands out for his principled stance. It's perhaps a microcosm of British/Irish history. Try to assimilate the Irish to British ways, many will comply, and those that don't are painted as unreasonable agitators. I respect British culture , but don't respect those that give it an elevated status .

I think we are in the dark on this, and my point is that surely after all these years there must be at least one Irish man that has worn a poppy that was 'forced' upon him would come out and speak about his experiences. If they did come out it would at least show them up.

Id say the policy was in place though an unwritten one, but the way the BBC is regulated now in relation to standards fair and equal pay and all the controversy they have take lately will not want to have anymore bad press.

James has stood out and he should never take the treatment he has... I don't blame the Poppy charity for this I blame certain media outlets that like to bring it to the attention of others to create a non story.

[Franko]

I doubt anyone would put pressure on anyone to wear a poppy, if it was the case we'd have plenty stories about it, other than the ones made up here by boarders saying he'll have pressured into wearing that'

Keane Lennon and O'Connell don't seem the type to bow to pressure.

Did O'Gara regret his attitude to the queen? Or did I read that wrong?

I genuinely don't get this. They weren't pressured into wearing it?
What actually happened was they went down to their local Spar and bought one and have been wearing it daily for the last 2 weeks?

No I reckon it was handed to them and they decided to wear it, they could have decided not too. That's their decision. I don't find it that difficult to understand.

Surely by now after all these years there would be some sort of 'poppy pressure' story coming out!

I don't think the head of the BBC are standing over presenters and forcefully pinning the poppy to their lapels. But I  Think it highly unlikely that many presenters buy their own poppy in the local shop . Therefore Its easy to assume that there is an unwritten policy of handing presenters poppies with the expectation that they wear one, presumably for presentation purposes. Many of these presenters/pundits probably think "anything for a quiet life" and thereby comply. The likes of McClean  then stands out for his principled stance. It's perhaps a microcosm of British/Irish history. Try to assimilate the Irish to British ways, many will comply, and those that don't are painted as unreasonable agitators. I respect British culture , but don't respect those that give it an elevated status .

I think we are in the dark on this, and my point is that surely after all these years there must be at least one Irish man that has worn a poppy that was 'forced' upon him would come out and speak about his experiences. If they did come out it would at least show them up.

Id say the policy was in place though an unwritten one, but the way the BBC is regulated now in relation to standards fair and equal pay and all the controversy they have take lately will not want to have anymore bad press.

James has stood out and he should never take the treatment he has... I don't blame the Poppy charity for this I blame certain media outlets that like to bring it to the attention of others to create a non story.

I reckon it's more a Frank Mitchell/Frank McClorey type thing.

If you want to have a successful career on British TV then you have to toe the line.  It's clearly not enforced by any written mandate, moreso subconsciously 'enforced' by a rotten British press and their associated Tommy Robinson type sheep who will hunt down and attempt to destroy the career of those who decide to take a principled stand.

There would also be plenty uber-British types in decision making positions within the BBC who would take a dim view of those who refused to 'honour our heroes'.  They would obviously be too smart to ever record this anywhere in a way that would constitute proof.

So why would anyone speak up, without 'proof' of their claims?

[Milltown Row2]

I don't know the answer, would there not be people or pundits that have retired from it all and come out and mention, even in passing, that they were 'pressured' into wearing it as someone said that it would further your career or at least keep you in a well paid job..

We are doing a lot of assuming over people wearing the poppy, It would take a brave person to test this theory in fairness, brave as in someone willing to see if not wearing it will mean loss of work...

Was Niblock wearing one or Sidebotton at the weekend?

[bannside]

No. But he should have been wearing a Saffron jersey with 14 on the back.

[general_lee]

Look we all know what the British are like with their poppy. I 100% admire anyone that takes a stance against it as the farcical nature of poppy culture manages to outdo itself every year. There's a good account on Twitter called @giantpoppywatch which encapsulates this brilliantly.

Regards BBC, ITV etc. I'm sure they could do without the ensuing complaints if x y or z wasn't wearing one on the 6 o'clock news. I'd hazard a guess x y and z know this too so it suits all parties to a certain extent.

[Franko]

I don't know the answer, would there not be people or pundits that have retired from it all and come out and mention, even in passing, that they were 'pressured' into wearing it as someone said that it would further your career or at least keep you in a well paid job..

We are doing a lot of assuming over people wearing the poppy, It would take a brave person to test this theory in fairness, brave as in someone willing to see if not wearing it will mean loss of work...

Was Niblock wearing one or Sidebotton at the weekend?

Honestly don't know.  I see what you are saying regarding nobody putting their head above the parapet.  I'd love to ask Niblock exactly what the score is.