Electrician Strike - Would you cross the picket

[Na Clairsigh]

I am an electrical apprentice working on a site in dublin, pearse street (P elliot).  Haven't been in work mon or tues but my understanding is that we are back as normal tomorrow, can anyone update me on this??

[Mid Mon]

Also the Diesel caps have been removed from numerous items of plant belonging to other contractors who crossed the picket yesterday.

What is that about?

Id assume the machines couldn't be used without the caps stopping work, minor sabotage.

The caps have been removed but left sitting beside the machines, it seems to be a kind of warning, if sugar or other substances where put into the tank it could cause serious damage to the plant

[The Real Laoislad]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

[The Real Laoislad]

We have 500 hundered lads who wont be turning in for work tomorrow, due to the strike. i am a sparks by trade, but have a non-site based job with the company now. The union should be more concerned with un-regulated sub-contractors working for 500 a week. This is happening on one of the biggest sites in which we are involved in. A lad i know had an accident on this site a few weeks ago while working for one of these sub-contractors. It looks like he may lose his finger onw and guess what no insurance cover for him! We had a meeting last week on a site with the union heads last week and their response to this is "we are looking in to it"......... typical union shite. As for the lads switching on breakers who aren't sparks, that would be a health and Safety issue and there is no doubt that the site insurance comany specifys this in their cover in case of fire, electrocution. Reading some of the posts on here, if been a sparks is so easy and the money is so good no better time to start serving your time than now, sure whats 4 years, no sick pay, no contracts and in some cases no insurance in case of accidents. Luckily i am on holidays this week so passing the pickets wont be an issue.

Ah no sure its handy work,all we do all day is change lightbulbs 

[ludermor]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

They need to get someone to work on their PR, i said earlier that i thought revised work practices was a bigger issue but this isn't coming out in the media. The fact is the they are striking for increased pay whether they settle for less makes no difference , and it is a fact that they are the best paid trade ( going on minimum rates) in the industry.
With regards to cable tray erection and cable pulling would you not argue that is not the best use of a qualified/training trade? Just because it was always this way (tradition!) doesnt mean it has to stay same. If non qualified workers can do the job it doesn't make sense ( to an employer) to pay extra for a tradesman to do it. It would mean job cuts for electricians of course but i cant say i would be 100% against it.
Your comment about employers losing 12months of a apprenticeship is irrelevant as this happens to every apprentice.

[Mid Mon]

take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,

An apprentice is there to be trained not pull cables or sweep up floors.

[The Real Laoislad]

Yes they do need to work on their PR as I only found out about this after talking to some of the guys on strike..

There is no way I would agree with a group of un qualified and possibly foregin labourers coming in to pull cable or put up cable tray,why should someone who has trained for 4 years give up their job for someone who has done f**k all training?

Yes the cable pulling and cable tray erection while physically demanding it is easy enough work,though saying that I would like to see some of these labourers bend a single length of conduit without cutting it around 4 or 5 different angles, but its still part of the Industrial Electrical trade,and I know some lads and thats all they do from site to site is put up tray and conduit,maybe thats a sign of their lack of skills in the technical electrical work ie PLC'S,panel wiring,BMS etc but I reckon they have the right to choose after spending 4 years doing their time,and I also think an apprentice should learn the hard way and pull cable for at least a year of his apprenticeship,the little runts have it to easy nowadays compared to my time 

Thank f**k I didn't serve my time with a Industrial Electrical Contractor and I have the where with all to better myself by doing umteen courses and 5 years working on Industrial sites was enough to turn me off it forever but for those who are happy working on these sites after doing four years of training they shouldn't be sacked because a Brazilian or Polish guy will do some of his work for half the price..

The Contractors might not see it that way I agree,and it does make business sense in fairness but we have to protect our own first IMHO.
One of the guys I was talking to even said he would take the paycut if he thought it would save his job,I would imagine there are many more like him but they have to go along with whats happening I suppose,It's not really affecting me as I'm self employed and have no one with me for the moment

[The Real Laoislad]

take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,

An apprentice is there to be trained not pull cables or sweep up floors.

Yes and part of that training is to pull cables and sweep up floors,you have to start at the bottom and work up..
Its a good lesson for them IMHO

[ludermor]

Yes they do need to work on their PR as I only found out about this after talking to some of the guys on strike..

There is no way I would agree with a group of un qualified and possibly foregin labourers coming in to pull cable or put up cable tray,why should someone who has trained for 4 years give up their job for someone who has done f**k all training?

Yes the cable pulling and cable tray erection while physically demanding it is easy enough work,though saying that I would like to see some of these labourers bend a single length of conduit without cutting it around 4 or 5 different angles, but its still part of the Industrial Electrical trade,and I know some lads and thats all they do from site to site is put up tray and conduit,maybe thats a sign of their lack of skills in the technical electrical work ie PLC'S,panel wiring,BMS etc but I reckon they have the right to choose after spending 4 years doing their time,and I also think an apprentice should learn the hard way and pull cable for at least a year of his apprenticeship,the little runts have it to easy nowadays compared to my time 

But is that not back up the employers agrument? Just because it was part of the electrician is no justification of keeping it there and if anything backs up people who say it is a handy trade. Some lads might just do cable tray and conduit but do they get paid the same as lads who do 'real' work?? I wouldnt agree with you saying they should have a choice of doing this work, they should have a choice but they should get paid less!!!! I completely agree that lads have to start at the bottom but they cannot be left their and get paid the same as lads half way up

[INDIANA]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

They have no right. they should be thankful they have a job. If they lose their jobs over this I've no sympathy for them. The cheek of them looking for a pay rise when we're in a global recession and heading for  the highest unemployment rate the country has ever seen. really maps out the level of intelligence of some of these individuals.
Everybody I know whatever the job has taken at least a 10% pay cut and its up to 15 and 20% in some cases.

[The Real Laoislad]

Yes they do need to work on their PR as I only found out about this after talking to some of the guys on strike..

There is no way I would agree with a group of un qualified and possibly foregin labourers coming in to pull cable or put up cable tray,why should someone who has trained for 4 years give up their job for someone who has done f**k all training?

Yes the cable pulling and cable tray erection while physically demanding it is easy enough work,though saying that I would like to see some of these labourers bend a single length of conduit without cutting it around 4 or 5 different angles, but its still part of the Industrial Electrical trade,and I know some lads and thats all they do from site to site is put up tray and conduit,maybe thats a sign of their lack of skills in the technical electrical work ie PLC'S,panel wiring,BMS etc but I reckon they have the right to choose after spending 4 years doing their time,and I also think an apprentice should learn the hard way and pull cable for at least a year of his apprenticeship,the little runts have it to easy nowadays compared to my time 

But is that not back up the employers agrument? Just because it was part of the electrician is no justification of keeping it there and if anything backs up people who say it is a handy trade. Some lads might just do cable tray and conduit but do they get paid the same as lads who do 'real' work?? I wouldnt agree with you saying they should have a choice of doing this work, they should have a choice but they should get paid less!!!! I completely agree that lads have to start at the bottom but they cannot be left their and get paid the same as lads half way up

But they are all Qualified Electricians thats my point, they all done the same training,what does it matter what type of work in the Electrical area they are doing its all part of the trade.
I never said cable tray and pulling cables wasn't real work btw,its probably the most physically demanding work you can do so don't be putting words in my mouth,its just not the most technical type of work but I never said it wasn't real work,if any believes that they should try put up 1400cm cable rack sometime and bend it around a corner or pull a 3x220sq cable from one end of the building to the other.

And it doesn't back up anyone saying a Electricans job is handy because anyone with half knowledge of sites will know cable tray/cable pulling is only a percentage of what a sparks does but it is a sparks job none the less,not one I would be happy doing granted but some lads are and after doing the training they shouldn't be let go for a non qualified person to do it.

As an employer myself,I can see the Contractors point,they just want to make the most money and pay as little wages as possible,thats the way every company Electrical or not works.
But I can't agree it's right to let go qualified Irish men and women and bring in un trained labourers who in all likelihood will be foreigners to replace them.
Something should be done to stop the Contractors doing this IMHO,and if thats what they are striking about then I am totally behind them.

[The Real Laoislad]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

They have no right. they should be thankful they have a job. If they lose their jobs over this I've no sympathy for them. The cheek of them looking for a pay rise when we're in a global recession and heading for  the highest unemployment rate the country has ever seen. really maps out the level of intelligence of some of these individuals.
Everybody I know whatever the job has taken at least a 10% pay cut and its up to 15 and 20% in some cases.

Did you just choose to ignore the part where I said most of them are on strike because of the contractors wanting to bring in cheap labour to replace them and not because they are looking for a pay increase?

[INDIANA]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

They have no right. they should be thankful they have a job. If they lose their jobs over this I've no sympathy for them. The cheek of them looking for a pay rise when we're in a global recession and heading for  the highest unemployment rate the country has ever seen. really maps out the level of intelligence of some of these individuals.
Everybody I know whatever the job has taken at least a 10% pay cut and its up to 15 and 20% in some cases.

Did you just choose to ignore the part where I said most of them are on strike because of the contractors wanting to bring in cheap labour to replace them and not because they are looking for a pay increase?

that isn't what their Union is saying.

[fearbrags]

sure  lets  do  the same in every  job so  you could teach primary  school after leaving  secondary school , sure  half  what  the gardai do can be done by labourers   same  in all the trades  but standards will fall
  As for the civil service  , Don't get me started
  Then we have  politics  we  could  do  with  half  the  TDs  , senators
co councilors etc

[The Real Laoislad]

I was talking to a few of the guys from my old company who are on strike at the moment.
The general consensus among them is they don't mind if they don't get a pay increase,that wasn't what the strike was about to start with.
Basically they are saying the main contractors have ideas to bring in general operatives who would be mostly foregin to do some of the Electricians work like cable pulling,cable tray erection and so forth.
These labourers would be on half of what the Electricians are getting,now some of this work is handy enough but if you take cable pulling for example this is traditionally a apprentice's job,so why would a company bother training an apprentice and losing them for 12 months out of there 4 year apprenticeship for off the job training in college when they can pay a guy minimum wage to do their job...
If this was to happen there would be hundreds of Electricians out of work,and apprentice's wouldn't be trained..
I for one feel they are right to strike over this,I do agree striking over a wage increase is out of order but this is an entirely different matter

They have no right. they should be thankful they have a job. If they lose their jobs over this I've no sympathy for them. The cheek of them looking for a pay rise when we're in a global recession and heading for  the highest unemployment rate the country has ever seen. really maps out the level of intelligence of some of these individuals.
Everybody I know whatever the job has taken at least a 10% pay cut and its up to 15 and 20% in some cases.

Did you just choose to ignore the part where I said most of them are on strike because of the contractors wanting to bring in cheap labour to replace them and not because they are looking for a pay increase?

that isn't what their Union is saying.

I'm aware of that but you can take it from me the main reason they are striking is because of the threat to bring in cheap unskilled and possible foreign labour.
Anyway I believe the union have already dropped their wage increase demands,which I agree were ridiculous to start with even if the money is owed to them since 2007
I have already agreed with ludermor that they should be clearer in that but I heard it straight from the picket line today where 200 of them are striking