The Many Faces of US Politics...

[whitey]

I have a cousin who lost a 3 year old to brain cancer

The kids got the best of care from the top doctors in the world all paid for by insurance (up to a point)

When it became apparent (to everyone except the parents) that it was terminal the insurance company started denying coverage for "experimental" type procedures

One procedure that was denied was a $600K stem cell transplant. She ended up getting the transplant paid by Medicaid

All toldthe battle to save her life cost well over $2M

I can absolutely see how someone could be driven to the point of insanity if a life saving procedure for a child was denied .....I know they were

[03,05,08]

I have a cousin who lost a 3 year old to brain cancer

The kids got the best of care from the top doctors in the world all paid for by insurance (up to a point)

When it became apparent (to everyone except the parents) that it was terminal the insurance company started denying coverage for "experimental" type procedures

One procedure that was denied was a $600K stem cell transplant. She ended up getting the transplant paid by Medicaid

All toldthe battle to save her life cost well over $2M

I can absolutely see how someone could be driven to the point of insanity if a life saving procedure for a child was denied .....I know they were

What happens if you have a basic/poor insurance deal and you need an expensive but life saving op? Are you just fucked?

[whitey]

I have a cousin who lost a 3 year old to brain cancer

The kids got the best of care from the top doctors in the world all paid for by insurance (up to a point)

When it became apparent (to everyone except the parents) that it was terminal the insurance company started denying coverage for "experimental" type procedures

One procedure that was denied was a $600K stem cell transplant. She ended up getting the transplant paid by Medicaid

All toldthe battle to save her life cost well over $2M

I can absolutely see how someone could be driven to the point of insanity if a life saving procedure for a child was denied .....I know they were

What happens if you have a basic/poor insurance deal and you need an expensive but life saving op? Are you just fucked?

Not necessarily, and it often depends on the state

You'll probably get the operation, but you'll wait for it and you won't be seeing the best doctors

[johnnycool]

We're not talking about a mild mannered surgeon here. This is a wealthy CEO of a legalized extortion racket that was directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people and bankruptcy and hardship for millions, many of them elderly and vulnerable. After he took over as CEO, UHC's denial rate jumped from 8.7% to 22.7%, double the industry average. He also wasn't averse to a bit of insider trading, selling off stock before making it public that the corporation was being investigated for antitrust violations.

He belongs in the same category as Dr Harold Shipman. The lack of outrage about his death is entirely to be expected.

The key word there is "legalised"...

UHC are allowed to do what they do because there's not enough checks and balances to protect the actual paying customers and therein lies the problem with unabated capitalism where human beings are cash cows, commodities, consumers...
There is no accountability for these CEO's, directors, investors, they chase the bottom line at all costs and sail off into the sunset on their Yachts and don't give a f**k.
When people on the receiving end see no way out, no legal recourse they take actions into their own hands like we see here.
I do struggle to have any sympathy for this man and his family and I do get where Puckoon is coming from as I've a good few friends who work for Thales in East Belfast, the missile manufacturer.
They're picking up their wage, taking care of their families without much thought for the damage their work does elsewhere in the world and if they didn't do it, someone else would.

[03,05,08]

I have a cousin who lost a 3 year old to brain cancer

The kids got the best of care from the top doctors in the world all paid for by insurance (up to a point)

When it became apparent (to everyone except the parents) that it was terminal the insurance company started denying coverage for "experimental" type procedures

One procedure that was denied was a $600K stem cell transplant. She ended up getting the transplant paid by Medicaid

All toldthe battle to save her life cost well over $2M

I can absolutely see how someone could be driven to the point of insanity if a life saving procedure for a child was denied .....I know they were

What happens if you have a basic/poor insurance deal and you need an expensive but life saving op? Are you just fucked?

Not necessarily, and it often depends on the state

You'll probably get the operation, but you'll wait for it and you won't be seeing the best doctors

What's the verdict on the health care system in America? Are we better off over here or is it much the same?

[Jell 0 Biafra]

If you've good insurance, it's terrific here.  If not, you're more or less fucked.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

When our nipper had his appendix out a while back, we initially got a bill for 200K.

A while later, we got a discounted bill for just under 100K.

Then the insurance company negotiated the bill down to about 5k, and the amount we ended up having to pay out of that was $200.

The numbers on the initial bills are all obviously made up with the expectation that the insurance company will negotiate that down by 90% or so.  But if you don't have insurance, you're not going to have the clout to negotiate that for yourself.

[whitey]

If you've good insurance, it's terrific here.  If not, you're more or less fucked.

Agreed

And you don't necessarily need to have a high paying job to have "good" insurance

When I was starting off over here I had an entry level job (essentially making minimum wage) and one of my specialists at Beth Israel Hospital was the head of his dept at Harvard Medical School. One of the best in the world in his field

[Eamonnca1]

When our nipper had his appendix out a while back, we initially got a bill for 200K.

A while later, we got a discounted bill for just under 100K.

Then the insurance company negotiated the bill down to about 5k, and the amount we ended up having to pay out of that was $200.

The numbers on the initial bills are all obviously made up with the expectation that the insurance company will negotiate that down by 90% or so.  But if you don't have insurance, you're not going to have the clout to negotiate that for yourself.

Suffice to say, there's no way the appendectomy, a one-hour procedure, cost the health care provider the annual salary of a senior Silicon Valley software developer. When these people are making up their prices, it's a case of charge what you think you can get away with, the victim's hardship be damned.

All this talk about the "cost" of healthcare. It's the "price" of healthcare that's the problem. People need to stop using the word "cost" and start talking about the "price." It's a completely made-up number, not a naturally-occurring phenomenon on like the weather, as some would have you believe.

[Puckoon]

What's the verdict on the health care system in America? Are we better off over here or is it much the same?

Really it depends on the severity of the issue and your personal situation with insurance and money for bills.

Northern Ireland
3 weeks ago in Ireland my mother fell in the kitchen. She waited 2 hours on the floor for an ambulance, then waited in a chair in a hallway in the Erne for almost 36 hours prior to getting a bed after her X rays and scans.
She went half days without being seen or talked to after her proper admittance to the Erne and spent 6 days there total sharing a ward bed with other patients present and no privacy except a curtain. She was at times frustrated with her experience and care that was being administered.
She's home now.

America
On Friday of last week my wife took a Grand Mal seizure in our living room while sitting in a chair (in America). It was a second event, first having happened in September. We had just paid off her first event bill, which came to us around $35,000. That included an ambulance ride to the hospital ($7,000). Our insurance kicked in and we paid about $2,000 out of pocket.

Within 60 minutes of the Seizure my wife was in the ER, had had an emergency EKG and CAT scan. Within 12 hours she had had an additional EEG, MRI, and Ultrasound as well as multiple administrations of anti seizure medications, IV administrations of amino acids and electrolytes. She stayed 3 nights in her own private room, and I expect this bill to be around $50,000 before our insurance kicks in. Our deductible is close to having been met for the calendar year, so I expect our out of pocket to be around $1200 for this on the upper end. If it happens again in 2025 our deductible will be back at Zero and I will probably have to pay the full $5k maximum out of pocket.

EDIT: She also broke 2 teeth during the Seizure so that's gonna be a $calping as well.

[J70]

As the others have said, it's fantastic IF you have a good insurance plan. If not, if anything major or unexpected happens, say goodbye to your house and any chance of a decent retirement.

Its a ludicrous, opaque, arbitrary system, where depending on where you go, an aspirin could "cost" you $75 in one place and be normal price in the clinic across the street. And god help you if an out-of-network doctor happens to glance at your chart during your stay. Or if that drug you need is monopolized by a parasite like Martin Shrkeli (look him up if you're not familiar).

If Trump and RFK Jr are really for the working man, they could do a lot worse than starting the process to get some federal standards in place to stop all of this nonsense.

[Eamonnca1]

What's the verdict on the health care system in America? Are we better off over here or is it much the same?

Really it depends on the severity of the issue and your personal situation with insurance and money for bills.

Northern Ireland
3 weeks ago in Ireland my mother fell in the kitchen. She waited 2 hours on the floor for an ambulance, then waited in a chair in a hallway in the Erne for almost 36 hours prior to getting a bed after her X rays and scans.
She went half days without being seen or talked to after her proper admittance to the Erne and spent 6 days there total sharing a ward bed with other patients present and no privacy except a curtain. She was at times frustrated with her experience and care that was being administered.
She's home now.

America
On Friday of last week my wife took a Grand Mal seizure in our living room while sitting in a chair (in America). It was a second event, first having happened in September. We had just paid off her first event bill, which came to us around $35,000. That included an ambulance ride to the hospital ($7,000). Our insurance kicked in and we paid about $2,000 out of pocket.

Within 60 minutes of the Seizure my wife was in the ER, had had an emergency EKG and CAT scan. Within 12 hours she had had an additional EEG, MRI, and Ultrasound as well as multiple administrations of anti seizure medications, IV administrations of amino acids and electrolytes. She stayed 3 nights in her own private room, and I expect this bill to be around $50,000 before our insurance kicks in. Our deductible is close to having been met for the calendar year, so I expect our out of pocket to be around $1200 for this on the upper end. If it happens again in 2025 our deductible will be back at Zero and I will probably have to pay the full $5k maximum out of pocket.

EDIT: She also broke 2 teeth during the Seizure so that's gonna be a $calping as well.

That last bit is important. "Health" insurance in America doesn't cover dental or vision. You need to buy separate policies for those. Apparently your ability to see and your ability to eat are optional extras.

[David McKeown]

When our nipper had his appendix out a while back, we initially got a bill for 200K.

A while later, we got a discounted bill for just under 100K.

Then the insurance company negotiated the bill down to about 5k, and the amount we ended up having to pay out of that was $200.

The numbers on the initial bills are all obviously made up with the expectation that the insurance company will negotiate that down by 90% or so.  But if you don't have insurance, you're not going to have the clout to negotiate that for yourself.

I had kidney stonesresulting in hospitalisation a few years back. Initial bill as $37k but with an offer of 90% off if I paid before leaving the hospital.

[whitey]

Another great thing about the States is that every Fire Dept has their own ambulances.

So if your towns ambulance happens to be out on a call, towns have a "mutual aid agreement" with the surrounding towns.

They can even call in helicopters

It's actually insane

This happened near me a couple of weeks ago

https://www.masslive.com/capecod/2024/11/5-people-injured-in-fiery-crash-on-cape-cod.html?outputType=amp

[Puckoon]

Both of our 911 calls have resulted in Fire and Ambulance coming to our house.

She continues to be upset that she has to go in the Ambulance and not in the Fire truck with the Firemen...