The North is going backwards.

[Hereiam]

Its a sign of the times when this news headline hasn't even been mentioned on this board. This is not good for the north, but I suppose these bastards never really left. (Never believe all you read).

Forces are a 'threat': McGuinness

Deputy First Minister and Sinn Fein MP Martin McGuinness has said army special forces are a "major threat".

It comes after Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde requested support from the Special Reconnaissance Regiment to help gather intelligence on dissident republicans.

"The history of the north has shown that many of these forces have been as much a danger to the community as any other group," said Mr McGuinness.

Sir Hugh said he will discuss the move with the Policing Board next week.

Mr McGuinness said the decision was "stupid and dangerous".

Special forces, such as the SAS, operated throughout the Troubles, but left after the 1997 IRA ceasefire.

The Special Reconnaissance Regiment, which specialises in surveillance and intelligence gathering, has also been deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The SDLP said the decision send the regiment to Northern Ireland "raises the issue of who is in control".

[Double Cross]

British MP complains that British army is being used against British agents. 

[nifan]

OK, do you think the current threat is real and if so how do we gather intelligence on the threat?

[muppet]

OK, do you think the current threat is real and if so how do we gather intelligence on the threat?

This is stupid as getting the IRA to do it. Did Orde not think this through?

I was wondering what he was building up to yesterday?

[Donagh]

Does no one think it a more than a coincidence that the Brit's annual 'Intelligence & Security Committee Report' was due this week which said that 15% of the billions given to their spooks agencies is spent in the six counties? Seems like they need to invent a reason justify where this money is going. These toy soldiers are getting no more information than the RUC are already able to get through their continued use of 10 pound touts and basic listening devices.   

[baoithe]

Does no one think it a more than a coincidence that the Brit's annual 'Intelligence & Security Committee Report' was due this week which said that 15% of the billions given to their spooks agencies is spent in the six counties? Seems like they need to invent a reason justify where this money is going. These toy soldiers are getting no more information than the RUC are already able to get through their continued use of 10 pound touts and basic listening devices.  

Hmmm I couldn't believe this was a correct figure when one considers it in the context of the security threats facing Britain today.

Did I see on the news that they have a fairly big M15 outpost somewhere in the North too?

[Evil Genius]

Righto, I think I get it.

There's gangs of would-be murderers out there trying to kill police officers. The threat is especially great in rural areas like Fermanagh*, where police numbers have been greatly reduced in recent years and local police stations closed. The Chief Constable calls in some specialised help.

Meanwhile, SF and SDLP members of the Policing Boards complain, but not about the Murder Gangs, oh no, they're somehow upset that the Chief Constable is trying to protect the men and women under his command.

Make perfect sense to me...  

* - This recent petrol bomb attack on a Church Hall near Rosslea is thought to have been an attempt to lure PSNI officers into an ambush; they didn't feel secure in investigating until daylight the next day:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Police-39delayed-by-dissidents39.5022659.jp

[muppet]

Righto, I think I get it.

There's gangs of would-be murderers out there trying to kill police officers. The threat is especially great in rural areas like Fermanagh*, where police numbers have been greatly reduced in recent years and local police stations closed. The Chief Constable calls in some specialised help.

Meanwhile, SF and SDLP members of the Policing Boards complain, but not about the Murder Gangs, oh no, they're somehow upset that the Chief Constable is trying to protect the men and women under his command.

Make perfect sense to me...  

* - This recent petrol bomb attack on a Church Hall near Rosslea is thought to have been an attempt to lure PSNI officers into an ambush; they didn't feel secure in investigating until daylight the next day:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Police-39delayed-by-dissidents39.5022659.jp

Would you have approved if they called in 'some specialised help' from the south?

[Evil Genius]

Righto, I think I get it.

There's gangs of would-be murderers out there trying to kill police officers. The threat is especially great in rural areas like Fermanagh*, where police numbers have been greatly reduced in recent years and local police stations closed. The Chief Constable calls in some specialised help.

Meanwhile, SF and SDLP members of the Policing Boards complain, but not about the Murder Gangs, oh no, they're somehow upset that the Chief Constable is trying to protect the men and women under his command.

Make perfect sense to me...  

* - This recent petrol bomb attack on a Church Hall near Rosslea is thought to have been an attempt to lure PSNI officers into an ambush; they didn't feel secure in investigating until daylight the next day:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Police-39delayed-by-dissidents39.5022659.jp

Would you have approved if they called in 'some specialised help' from the south?

I'm not sure that any country welcomes armed troops from a foreign country being deployed within their own borders, but if it were to be reciprocated (i.e. British Security Forces also allowed to operate in the Republic), then I would perhaps have no objection in principle.
More normally, friendly countries sharing a common border will agree to assist each other in mutually countering subversion and terrorism within their own jurisdictions. Indeed, during the last Troubles, it is a matter of great regret that the Republic's Government never deployed the Rangers in Louth and Monaghan etc, thereby cutting off Terrorists in the South Armagh Salient from escaping through ratholes across the border, when things got hot for them in NI.
Anyhow, I am sure that there is presently excellent cross-border co-operation between the respective police forces and intelligence services etc of NI and the Republic; I wish them all good luck and hope that all the political parties, North and South, can unite fully in giving them every possible support.

[muppet]

Righto, I think I get it.

There's gangs of would-be murderers out there trying to kill police officers. The threat is especially great in rural areas like Fermanagh*, where police numbers have been greatly reduced in recent years and local police stations closed. The Chief Constable calls in some specialised help.

Meanwhile, SF and SDLP members of the Policing Boards complain, but not about the Murder Gangs, oh no, they're somehow upset that the Chief Constable is trying to protect the men and women under his command.

Make perfect sense to me...  

* - This recent petrol bomb attack on a Church Hall near Rosslea is thought to have been an attempt to lure PSNI officers into an ambush; they didn't feel secure in investigating until daylight the next day:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Police-39delayed-by-dissidents39.5022659.jp

Would you have approved if they called in 'some specialised help' from the south?

I'm not sure that any country welcomes armed troops from a foreign country being deployed within their own borders, but if it were to be reciprocated (i.e. British Security Forces also allowed to operate in the Republic), then I would perhaps have no objection in principle.
More normally, friendly countries sharing a common border will agree to assist each other in mutually countering subversion and terrorism within their own jurisdictions. Indeed, during the last Troubles, it is a matter of great regret that the Republic's Government never deployed the Rangers in Louth and Monaghan etc, thereby cutting off Terrorists in the South Armagh Salient from escaping through ratholes across the border, when things got hot for them in NI.
Anyhow, I am sure that there is presently excellent cross-border co-operation between the respective police forces and intelligence services etc of NI and the Republic; I wish them all good luck and hope that all the political parties, North and South, can unite fully in giving them every possible support.

That happens all the time with the Republic's territory. For example the Royal Navy frequently co-operates with it's Irish equivalent within Irish waters.

Northern Ireland is clearly a different case though and given that such a large proportion of it's citizens are at best uncomfortale with the border would it not have been wise to have seek a multi-coloured solution?

[nifan]

muppet, id be more than happy to see a collaborative body if it would help with gathering intelligence on terrorist groups.

[Evil Genius]

That happens all the time with the Republic's territory. For example the Royal Navy frequently co-operates with it's Irish equivalent within Irish waters.

As much a reflection on the relative sizes of the two Navies as anything else, I'd have thought.

Northern Ireland is clearly a different case though and given that such a large proportion of it's citizens are at best uncomfortale with the border would it not have been wise to have seek a multi-coloured solution?

The Republic doesn't have an equivalent of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment. In fact, we only established our SRR in 2005.

P.S. If it's a matter of choice ("being comfortable with"), can I have my pick from this lot? The Italian and Scandinavians could certainly make me "comfortable", though I'd accept near enough all of them (bar the Iranians, and "Miss Croatia", perhaps):
http://israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?p=42029

[muppet]

That happens all the time with the Republic's territory. For example the Royal Navy frequently co-operates with it's Irish equivalent within Irish waters.

As much a reflection on the relative sizes of the two Navies as anything else, I'd have thought.

Probably, but if there wasn't some issue there wouldn't be any need for assistance would there? The point is that Dublin and London are happy to and frequently do co-operate on security related issues.

Northern Ireland is clearly a different case though and given that such a large proportion of it's citizens are at best uncomfortale with the border would it not have been wise to have seek a multi-coloured solution?

The Republic doesn't have an equivalent of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment. In fact, we only established our SRR in 2005.

P.S. If it's a matter of choice ("being comfortable with"), can I have my pick from this lot? The Italian and Scandinavians could certainly make me "comfortable", though I'd accept near enough all of them (bar the Iranians, and "Miss Croatia", perhaps):
http://israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?p=42029
[/quote][/quote]

Could they not have gone through an International agency? If it could be defiined as international then Interpol?

Optics are sometimes more important than the reality (especially up north).

Sometimes 'non-political' types get it hopelessly wrong (as I believe Orde has this time) for example Bank of Ireland accepted €3.5 Billion of taxpayers money and then awarded it's staff a pay rise and they don't see what the problem is.   

[Evil Genius]

That happens all the time with the Republic's territory. For example the Royal Navy frequently co-operates with it's Irish equivalent within Irish waters.

As much a reflection on the relative sizes of the two Navies as anything else, I'd have thought.

Probably, but if there wasn't some issue there wouldn't be any need for assistance would there? The point is that Dublin and London are happy to and frequently do co-operate on security related issues. 

Apples and Pears. Both the UK and ROI have a problem with policing their territorial waters (drugs, arms, illegal immigrants etc), so they each have an interest in having their respective Navies co-operate. It's the same e.g. between the UK and France.
Whereas the ROI does not currently have a particular problem with (Dissident) Terrorism within its borders, so has no particular need to call upon the assistance of the British Army. And since there is no reciprocal element, and the ROI does not have any equivalent of the (highly specialised) SRR, no offence, but your point is irrelevant.

Could they not have gone through an International agency? If it could be defiined as international then Interpol?

Interpol?   That is merely a kind of international police civil service. It does not have any field operatives of the type that Orde clearly requires, or indeed anything like it - it's basically guys in suits in a big office in Lyons, processing arrest warrants and extradition requests etc. Moreover, its Constitution specifically prohibits  'any intervention or activities of a political [or] military character.'
Frankly, the only friendly forces who are likely to have the capability of the SRR will be found in a bare handful of countries - USA/Israel/France/Japan etc, and somehow I don't see any of them rushing to get involved in NI, even if requested.  

Sometimes 'non-political' types get it hopelessly wrong (as I believe Orde has this time) for example Bank of Ireland accepted €3.5 Billion of taxpayers money and then awarded it's staff a pay rise and they don't see what the problem is.    

Afaiaa, the SRR exists to provide electronic-based intelligence gathering and surveillance, of a type that cannot easily be done by other methods (e.g. Satellite, Cheltenham etc). It's not as if Orde is ordering Infantry Regiments to patrol the streets etc; the whole point about the SRR's modus operandi is that they do not go around intercepting insurgents like e.g. the SAS; rather they prefer (need, actually) to remain covert at all times.
Therefore, the general public in NI won't even be aware of their presence and public perception needn't come into it (unless stirred up by politicians operating to an Agenda, that is).  

[Rossfan]

I'm not sure that any country welcomes armed troops from a foreign country being deployed within their own borders, .

Quite true and it's even worse when the cnuts stay for 840 years.