Lions 2009 thread

Bogball XV · June 27, 2009, 04:13:17 PM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 27, 2009, 03:56:28 PM
O'Gara will be the scape goat, missed tackle, silly penalty, the English media will have their sacrificial lamb but the Lions ran out of steam in the last 20 and with the loss of 2 props and 2 centres they just ran out of players..

i would say the last 40, they never really pushed or tried to push home their advantage in the second half at all, altitiude and injuries would be a factor of course, but i thought they were happy to sit back and defend.
As for O'Gara, feel sorry for him, but I wouldn't have had him on the bench (or Williams for that matter).

Do you think if we'd got a decent view would we have seen whether or not the try was legit? An overhead would have been perfect.

Dinny Breen · June 27, 2009, 04:17:32 PM

Not defending O'Gara but just trying to look at the bigger picture but he's a terrible defender and I find it ironic after his comments regarding Geordie Murphy's tackling that he missed that one, he's not called O'Turnstyles for no reason.

The Touch Judge bottled the SA try, he seemed fairly convinced the SA player was in touch and wanted confirmation, there was no evidence to indicate he was so the TV official couldn't call it. It was the same Bryn Lawerence that screwed the Lions last week.

INDIANA · June 27, 2009, 04:18:52 PM

Dinny I've watched in freezeframe 6 times. It was a try. Its definitely Brussow's foot in touch.

screenexile · June 27, 2009, 04:21:27 PM

Jesus I'm welling up here did anyone see the interview with Simon Shaw? He's been on tours since 1997 and this was his first start and I thought he was immense. He said he'd rather be playing crap and taken off at half time and than lose and be MOTM.

If anyone ever doubted the importance of the Lions to the players they should have a look at that interview. It meant everything to that man!!!

Dinny Breen · June 27, 2009, 04:23:34 PM

QuoteDinny I've watched in freezeframe 6 times. It was a try. Its definitely Brussow's foot in touch.

I'm not saying it wasn't but I get the impression the TJ thought it was and he just bottled it, from all the TV angles we saw I agree it looked good.

INDIANA · June 27, 2009, 04:35:16 PM

A new Zealand touch judge would have loved to call that out as he tried to do. He'd have been publicly hung had he disallowed it.

Not mad into the Lions but that was a great game. Really enjoyed it. Think the altitude caught up with them in the 2nd half. They had them on the rack but let them back in. Injuries didn't help either. Ultimately not having Hook to cover the centre cost them the game. That lies with the management.

Dinny Breen · June 27, 2009, 04:49:53 PM

Agree with all that Indiana but don't forget the same touch judge saw Burger's gouging and recommended a yellow

Burger will probably get 12 weeks

Great game of rugby mind, now out of my sick bed off to Offaly hopefully for a Lilywhite double...

tyroneboi · June 27, 2009, 04:51:57 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 27, 2009, 04:35:16 PM
A new Zealand touch judge would have loved to call that out as he tried to do. He'd have been publicly hung had he disallowed it.

Not mad into the Lions but that was a great game. Really enjoyed it. Think the altitude caught up with them in the 2nd half. They had them on the rack but let them back in. Injuries didn't help either. Ultimately not having Hook to cover the centre cost them the game. That lies with the management.

Exactly, there was no cover for the centres on the bench at all. The uncontested scrums was a bad thing for the Lions as well because they had been doing well there. As soon as Roberts and BOD came off it you could see that try coming. Some great performances all the same from Shaw, Kearney, Phillips, Jones while the rest gave 100% and more. 16-8 at half time wasn't a big enough lead for all the possession they had. Really disappointed and just hope that they can get the win next Saturday.

Bogball XV · June 27, 2009, 05:04:26 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 27, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Dinny I've watched in freezeframe 6 times. It was a try. Its definitely Brussow's foot in touch.

yeah, but we can't actually see fourie's feet at all - a better angle would have put it beyond doubt - and I'm surprised there isn't one.

AZOffaly · June 27, 2009, 05:07:30 PM

I'm a strong defender of ROG as a player, and I have great time for him after what he has done for Munster, and Ireland, but today I felt he was completely focussed in the wrong direction, and was not playing for the team. I think he was playing for ROG.

From the moment he came on, I thought he looked like a lad who was determined to make an impression because obviously Jones had been doing fairly well, and ROG could see his chances of playing as the Test starter disappearing down the swanney.

I couldn't believe when he dandered over to that penalty in front of the posts, and also to the one on the sideline. Jones had been metronomic all day, and there should have been no doubt that it was Jones' duty to kick the penalties. I'm relieved that O'Connell didn't do anything stupid there.

Finally, the up and under seemed again to be a case of 'I'm going to do something here'. It wasn't on, and it wasn't well executed. The Lions were not set up for it (he was the only chaser) and he should have kicked down the field, ideally for touch. It looked like a selfish attempt to be the hero.

I like ROG, a lot, and I know he'll do more good things for the teams I really care about, but I think you have to call a spade a spade here. That was not good from him, and he got what he deserved at the end of it, even if the other Lions suffered because of it, unfortunately.

INDIANA · June 27, 2009, 05:20:14 PM

Quote from: Bogball XV on June 27, 2009, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 27, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Dinny I've watched in freezeframe 6 times. It was a try. Its definitely Brussow's foot in touch.
yeah, but we can't actually see fourie's feet at all - a better angle would have put it beyond doubt - and I'm surprised there isn't one.

You can- he's wearing silver boots and they aren't hitting the whitewash.

tyroneboi · June 27, 2009, 05:27:27 PM

I would agree with AZ there. Maybe there was a sense of trying to make up for the missed tackle that led to the try and he felt that he had to do something extra special. He is going to get savaged by the media I would expect but I don't think thats entirely deserved. It shouldn't have got to the stage where a penalty at the death was going to beat the Lions today. They seemed to try and close the game down for the first 20 mins of the second half and hope to have a final 20 mins like last week.

There was also a massive error from Jones when he missed the kick to touch and it led to a score for South Africa. Can't remember whether it was the try or a penalty but to me it was just as big a mistake as O'Garas.

AZOffaly · June 27, 2009, 05:31:24 PM

Aye, but Jones made a mistake trying to do the right thing. O'Gara made his (second) mistake trying to do the wrong thing. As a Munster fan, and an Ireland fan, I hope he doesn't let it get to him too much (except maybe as a lesson). He's a resiliant lad though, so I'm sure he'll bounce back.

INDIANA · June 27, 2009, 05:31:36 PM

Quote from: tyroneboi on June 27, 2009, 05:27:27 PM
I would agree with AZ there. Maybe there was a sense of trying to make up for the missed tackle that led to the try and he felt that he had to do something extra special. He is going to get savaged by the media I would expect but I don't think thats entirely deserved. It shouldn't have got to the stage where a penalty at the death was going to beat the Lions today. They seemed to try and close the game down for the first 20 mins of the second half and hope to have a final 20 mins like last week.

There was also a massive error from Jones when he missed the kick to touch and it led to a score for South Africa. Can't remember whether it was the try or a penalty but to me it was just as big a mistake as O'Garas.

I agree completely with that. But Ronan did have a pop at Geordan Murphy for missing a tackle once - always best to keep your mouth shut.
He's just never been a great tackler. If you rerun the last 15 mins- Spies actually gets a ball and goes looking for him and absolutely smashes him. Rog never recovered from that. Similar to the Luke McAllsiter incident 3 years ago the tackle on Fourie was technique, he goes too high again on a stronger man and gets smashed.
The garryowen was just brain fade.
Ultimately you have to hand it to the Boks to come back from 11 points down - is the mark of a great side. Rather than blaming indivdiuals - the boks deserve all the credit.

tyroneboi · June 27, 2009, 05:37:18 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 27, 2009, 05:31:24 PM
Aye, but Jones made a mistake trying to do the right thing. O'Gara made his (second) mistake trying to do the wrong thing. As a Munster fan, and an Ireland fan, I hope he doesn't let it get to him too much (except maybe as a lesson). He's a resiliant lad though, so I'm sure he'll bounce back.

I know what you mean saying Jones was trying to the right thing but at the level they are playing at, a fly half missing a kick to touch from a penalty is pretty bad. O'Gara is the type of fella that seems to recover well from setbacks and will comeback stronger for Munster and Ireland next season. Hasn't had the best of times in a Lions shirt anyway from the time that thug McRae punched the head of him in Australia to todays mistakes.