Mickey Harte joins the Irish News

[supersarsfields]

I'm not spinning. He did. and Ive no problem in that. It just seems to be you that is making the jump from players getting money for playing the sport and people doing a job and getting paid for it.

[muppet]

I'm not spinning. He did. and Ive no problem in that. It just seems to be you that is making the jump from players getting money for playing the sport and people doing a job and getting paid for it.

Yes it seems to be just me here.

We have a tiered amateur association and we rationalise away the obvious anomalies while demonising anyone that challenges the farce.

I would like to see a true amateur association but I think we are way beyond that now.

[imtommygunn]

If he doesn't take money, expenses aside, for the Tyrone job then there is zero hypocricy in this.

He's getting paid as a journalist here or for opinions which will help sell journalist stories - either way he's getting paid in a journalistic capacity and not as a GAA man. Yes he got his rep there but so what.

[muppet]

If he doesn't take money, expenses aside, for the Tyrone job then there is zero hypocricy in this.

He's getting paid as a journalist here or for opinions which will help sell journalist stories - either way he's getting paid in a journalistic capacity and not as a GAA man. Yes he got his rep there but so what.

He has been hired as a Gaa columnist. It is reasonable to assume he will only discuss Gaa matters. It is also reasonable to assume that if he wasn't Mickey Harte Tyrone's Gaa All-Ireland winning manager he wouldn't be there. Like I said I've no problem with any of this.

But if he (and anyone else, this isn't just about Harte) took money for opining that others shouldn't get money, then I have a problem.

[supersarsfields]

Again this is were we'll have to disagree. To me Mickey might be getting hired as a GAA columinist, but that's the point. He's getting hired to do a job, not to manage. To me I see no problem with pay for it.
You on the other hand see him taking this job as going against what he stated earlier regarding players getting pay/ grants. Which I totally disagree with. If it was regarding a grant or pay for a manager then I'd concede to your point of view.

But i can't see either side changing their view on this so it's prob been done to death.

[muppet]

Again this is were we'll have to disagree. To me Mickey might be getting hired as a GAA columinist, but that's the point. He's getting hired to do a job, not to manage. To me I see no problem with pay for it.
You on the other hand see him taking this job as going against what he stated earlier regarding players getting pay/ grants. Which I totally disagree with. If it was regarding a grant or pay for a manager then I'd concede to your point of view.

But i can't see either side changing their view on this so it's prob been done to death.

Fair enough.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

It certainly does matter if that wish is public or private. That is the point.

Rubbish. If someone has a particular opinion, and someone sticks a mike or a recorder under his/her nose then it becomes public... what do you want them to do, lie?

b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Where the f*ck did I say that? I just answered your question where would another sports association cease without amateurs.

You said that it didn't matter whether the amateurs were an intrinsic component part of an organisation (GAA) or indirectly contributing (LoI). I would call that an equation.

He promised to lead a Tyrone team in the event of a players strike. He could have kept quiet like almost every other manager but he didn't.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html

Let me get this straight: you are against pay-for-play, but you would support players striking for the grants, and MH had no right to make a statement on it, even though he doesn't criticise the grants in that article you refer to. A tape-recorder was stuck under MH's nose, what did you want him to do? Almost every other manager probably hadn't a tape-recorder shoved under their nose. And how do you know he hadn't been reassured by the Tyrone panel that they wouldn't be striking?

[muppet]

It certainly does matter if that wish is public or private. That is the point.

Rubbish. If someone has a particular opinion, and someone sticks a mike or a recorder under his/her nose then it becomes public... what do you want them to do, lie?

b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Where the f*ck did I say that? I just answered your question where would another sports association cease without amateurs.

You said that it didn't matter whether the amateurs were an intrinsic component part of an organisation (GAA) or indirectly contributing (LoI). I would call that an equation.

Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

I'm taking your positions to their logical conclusions.

[muppet]

Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

I'm taking your positions to their logical conclusions.

The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

Show me exactly where I've misrepresented you, as opposed to hiding behind a "condescension" charge.

[muppet]

The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

Show me exactly where I've misrepresented you, as opposed to hiding behind a "condescension" charge.

Nor do I, unlike yourself, begrudge those GAA sporting figures of yesteryear that have turned a bob or two with an autobiography or such, even if they yet extol the virtues of player amateurism.

I dont begrudge anyone a few bob. That is the point.

muppet, you believe that

a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

Where did I say 'you can never make money....without being charged with hypocrisy'? You put those words in my mouth.

b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Show me where I said that without any of your beloved assumptions, extrapolation or bringing things to its (your) logical conclusions.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

All misrepresenting me. All putting words in my mouth(so to speak). All ignoring post after post explaining my opinion.

[Mike Sheehy]

If the players had the same potential for earnings through media work that Harte has then, yes, then it would be fine. But the fact is that they dont..his profile is much higher, he has to potential to earn a lot more. The thing is is that the players are as much responsible for his profile as he is himself. Now maybe some of the money he earns goes into a kitty and the player benefit from that. If not then, yes, it is fair to call him a hypocrite.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I dont begrudge anyone a few bob. That is the point.

So, in your eyes MH (and KMcS) is a hypocrite, yet you don't begrudge him, right?

a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

Where did I say 'you can never make money....without being charged with hypocrisy'? You put those words in my mouth.

So what are you saying then, that MH and his like can make money as a result of his GAA background at some point in the future, just not now?

b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Show me where I said that without any of your beloved assumptions, extrapolation or bringing things to its (your) logical conclusions.

You said  that it doesn't matter whether an organisation collapses tomorrow or in thirty years because of the services of amateurs being withdrawn: "Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent." Therefore, in your opinion, since it doesn't matter when the organisation actually kicks it, amateurs are as important to one organisation as they are to the other.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

All misrepresenting me. All putting words in my mouth(so to speak). All ignoring post after post explaining my opinion.

OK, I accept that that particular sentiment was not what you meant, though I wasn't referring to that far back in the thread, only the current cycle of this thread.

[muppet]

So what are you saying then, that MH and his like can make money as a result of his GAA background at some point in the future, just not now?

No. MH and anyone else are free to do as they wish. All I am saying ad nauseum is that if they are paid because of their profile as Gaa people then they shouldn't campaign against others in the Gaa receiving money.

You said  that it doesn't matter whether an organisation collapses tomorrow or in thirty years because of the services of amateurs being withdrawn: "Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent." Therefore, in your opinion, since it doesn't matter when the organisation actually kicks it, amateurs are as important to one organisation as they are to the other.

This does not accurately reflect my position. You asked:

can you name one single other 'professional' sports organisation anywhere in the world that would cease to be if the amateurs within its ranks ceased to be?

I replied:

Almost every 'professional' sports organise in the world would collapse if there was no amateurs working at grassroots level. Imagine the state of soccer in this country if the game consisted only of the League of Ireland. Imagine rugby without the schools and clubs.

You ran:

The League of Ireland would not collapse in the morning, not that it's particularly alive anyway. But the LoI does not need amateurs on a day-to-day basis to function. And neither would the RFU.  Yes, they may atrophy and die, eventually, but that is not the same thing. I'm talking about an immediate collapse, not a withering.

I reeled:

Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent.

You then concluded that what I meant was:

amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

It wasn't. Clearly amateurs are far more important to the Gaa. The FAI and IRFU dont get 83,000 attendances to see amateurs. They dont even get to build a stadium that size.

We are clearly creatures who think differently. Please dont assume on my behalf. If you have a question I will try to answer.