The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[corn02]

Right.

Ever since he took over and I read 'A season on the Brink' I have been a massive Benitez fan, defending him to the hilt. Tonight is the first time I have to question him.

I don't think he done too much wrong tonight bar taking off Gerrard. If you saw the match you would realise El Nino was very poor.

But as GBB says, his head isn't there at the moment. I don't know what is happening behind the scnens but he will leave in the summer. People like to have a go at him, they criticise him for not playing Keanen even though he has averaged 78 minutes this season, and has been very poor. People say he is too conservative but a look through United's stats shows that Ferguson has also took off attacking players for more conservative when leading narrowly. (Villa, Middlesborough and Wigan).

But things are not right and he is feeling the strain. Gerrard should have stayed on the field and perhaps Skrtl sacrificed for the final few minutes. Wigan hitting the bar probably shows that can be risky too.

I think if Rafa goes we will be set back another few years. People say he is not good enough to win the Premier League, I disagree. A stupiud tackle, bad marking etc can't really be levelled at the manager. Indivisual errors have cost us dearly. But my belief that he can win it is dwindling, I'll admit that.

The thing is, our performances this year has been poor. And while people say we are in this position only because United had a poor start is fair enough, but it means United went through a spell like this as well.

But he is too conservative-- Stoke springs to mind. I remember earlier in the season, Wigan  or Boro, I thinkwe had four strikers on the pitch at the end and we won it, looks impossible that he would repeat that.

Take a step back and we are in a very good position. Before the season started I think most claimed to be in the title race would be a brilliant achievement this season. We are two off top and into the latter stages of Europe - not bad. The thing is, we relaistically could have been in  a much better position.

It really is season on a brink 2 for Rafa. I'll support the manager while he is in charge, but if things don't buck up he will lose the support that has been very loyal to him to be fair.

Everyone on here knows what I think about Kuyt and I am certainly on my lonesome by the sounds of things. I am not foolish enough to suggest he has been brilliant lately, he hasn't. But when you come on here and read about him"making people vomit" it makes me vomit. He was on for a coupel of minutes and handled the ball in the box - ok mistake, but players make mistakes. He played an absolutely superb ball but nobody mentioned that.

It is just indicative of Liverpool fans that some players won;t get a fair deal. Torres was pretty horrible tonight, but there will be little mention of that, Gerrad was very poor in the second, won;t hear much about that. Kuyt has 10 minutes when he does one bad thing and one brilliant thing and people are making comments like that. I defend him too much, but some of the stick he gets is crazy.

I say I have seen 99% of our games this year and there have been very few were we have played well. Cheslsea, United, West Brom and Bolton are the stand-out games. We have actually played decent in some of the games we played poorly. I thought we were good tonight, verygood at Spurs, good against Hull, Stoke at home.

The frustraion is growing in me, 19 looks miles off nopw, but there is still a lot of ball top be played yet so who knows?

I think it is crazy when peopled eclare us out of the race with things so close and so much games left, but it is looking unlikely going on past form.

After the match tonight the first thing someone said to me was, Rafas rant is costing us. Ok, I was happy enough at the time, but it doesn;t look good tonight. But to suggest Lucas was thinking about it when he made that tacjkle, or Skrtl was thinking about it when he was tracking Cahill is a bit crazy for me. But who knoiws? It may have impacted the players.

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

[Doogie Browser]

Tonight has signalled a major mood shift on this thread, normally staunch Rafa defenders are now questioning his tactics and wisdom.  Does seem bizarre that he took off Gerrard, the man is usually their 'go to' player when they need something and he is on the bench.
From a Villa point of view I am delighted, Van Persie's late goal has kept Arsenal and Everton at arms length for now.  Chelsea v Liverpool for a draw on Sunday now please.  

[Over the Bar]

As an outsider it seems that Gerrard can probably take as much, if not more credit that Benitez for you being top of the league until after Christmas.

[AZOffaly]

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

I have time for him too, but I think he is just wired that way, and he's not going to change.

I will support any man who puts on the Liverpool jersey, or who is involved with the team. That doesn't mean I suspend my option to criticise if they are bad, or if I think silly things are being done. It's only my opinion, I doubt Rafa gives a spanish shite, but I don't think he can or will make the required changes in his attitude for Liverpool to win a title. Cups, yes, it's obvious why. English titles, nope, I don't think so.

[corn02]

Sorry for the spelling in my post by the way, quickly typed.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

As a matter of interest, how many points are we better off this season than last, in relation to our own performance. I see f*ck all improvement, except that United and Chelsea were worse than usual in the first few months. Liverpool will finish +10 behind United.

After an hour searching - here was the table on Jan 13, 2008 (after a 1-1 draw away to Middlesboro - incidentally also 3rd league draw in a row -  we went on to draw the next one and then lose at West Ham)

1 Man Utd 22 51
2 Arsenal 22  51
3 Chelsea 22  47
4 Liverpool 21 39

[corn02]

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

I have time for him too, but I think he is just wired that way, and he's not going to change.

I will support any man who puts on the Liverpool jersey, or who is involved with the team. That doesn't mean I suspend my option to criticise if they are bad, or if I think silly things are being done. It's only my opinion, I doubt Rafa gives a spanish shite, but I don't think he can or will make the required changes in his attitude for Liverpool to win a title. Cups, yes, it's obvious why. English titles, nope, I don't think so.

Hard to disagree.

Started the season with a more attacking brand and while we were playing poor, we were getting lucky and getting the results.

Litle by little he reverted to his old style and while the performance level has been the same, the results just aren't coming.

[corn02]

As a matter of interest, how many points are we better off this season than last, in relation to our own performance. I see f*ck all improvement, except that United and Chelsea were worse than usual in the first few months. Liverpool will finish +10 behind United.

After an hour searching - here was the table on Jan 13, 2008 (after a 1-1 draw away to Middlesboro - incidentally also 3rd league draw in a row -  we went on to draw the next one and then lose at West Ham)

1 Man Utd 22 51
2 Arsenal 22  51
3 Chelsea 22  47
4 Liverpool 21 39

f**k that is a litlle bit of cheer on a horrible night.

[AZOffaly]

So there's a bit of progress points wise. When you factor in the wins against United and Chelsea, versus the results last year, it's probably the difference.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

I'm off to get drunk 

[corn02]

One extremely minor positive - the reaction from Keane when he came on - trying to rally the troops. well in lad.

[Armamike]

So is it the players or the way they are being asked to play ?
I believe its the latter

Real Laoislad - a bit of both really. I'm not sure if another manager could do much better with some of these players. There's not enough quality down the wings, from full backs and wide midfielders. Having said that, Benitez brought these players in and as others have said his footballing philosophy is a bit too cautious. There's a lack of real support from midfield going forward and a lack of movement (e.g. the likes of Alonso and Lucas are pretty static and never get forward to open up teams), which is probably a reflection of the manager's view on the game.  I would love to know how Benitez really views all these draws and what he sees as the cause.

[RedandGreenSniper]

People say he is too conservative but a look through United's stats shows that Ferguson has also took off attacking players for more conservative when leading narrowly. (Villa, Middlesborough and Wigan).

Yeah Ferguson might have done it but a couple of things on that. Firstly Ferguson doesn't do it as quickly. Secondly United can hold onto a 1-0 lead, they've mastered it this year. Liverpool on the other hand Liverpool have clearly struggled to hold onto a lead when they go into protect the lead mode. I think a lot of the reason for this is that United, because they have more attacking players starting off, won't be restricted as much if they take off one player like Rooney or Berbatov because they'll still have the likes of Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick etc on the field to push forward to relieve the pressure. Plus they have players that can attack and defend equally well.
When Liverpool take off Torres or Gerrard, they become the most conservative team in the country. When both are off - well they might as well forfeit the three points. Liverpool have the right balance for defending a lead when these two are on the field. When they don't, they tend to sit back too much with inevitable consequences

[AZOffaly]

He's getting dogged. I hope he stays. He's worth perservering with, but he needs to be given time to try and play with Torres. Rafa, of course, won't do that. Maybe when we're 8 points behind, but reasonably safe for4th spot, he'll let Robbie Keane play the role he bought him for.

[The Real Laoislad]

People say he is too conservative but a look through United's stats shows that Ferguson has also took off attacking players for more conservative when leading narrowly. (Villa, Middlesborough and Wigan).

Yeah but Slur Alex also throws on players to try and win a match when behind or drawing with ten minutes to go..