The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[corn02]

Corn, I have the same opinion on Kuyt, as Armamike, and it is far from being based on one performance. If Rafa plays him as a wide player, then it's pointless unless it's against the top teams where he essentially becomes an auxiliary right back. His work rate and dedication is great.

When LFC are playing anyone other than that, he either needs to be a second striker, or on the bench. He has almost 0 creativity, is not going to get behind any full back, and is not a good man to hold on to possession as a move develops. His passing is woeful, and his control is awful for a professional footballer. Momo Sissoko and himself could have a 'long touch' competition.

I have good time for Kuyt, as a worker and as a lad who can pop up with vital goals. But when you are trying to break a team down, especially at Anfield, he ain't the answer. Or if he is, it's to the wrong question.

His goal tally argue differently. His form has been excellent this season. He has played the lone striker role twice this season. He was involved in two goals on Saturday and was a great outlet against Blackburn. Only Alonso, Gerrard and Reina can claim to be closer to player of the year so far. His runs are intelligent and he is one of the main reasons why Arbeloa is prosperiong. No one is going to argue that his touch is woeful, but hew has been a key cog in our march to top spot.

[AZOffaly]

That's what I'm saying, if he is a striker, I can live with that. I will not be convinced, however, that he is the sort of creative right sided player that will open up teams who come to defend. Arbeloa is not a good enough attacking player to justify having a workhorse playing in front of him to give him freedom.

So I would definitely not say his form has been excellent, far from it. I would say he has chipped in with vital goals, no doubt, but maybe if a better player was wide right, we wouldn't be sweating on vital goals. He's the black hole for too many moves when he's on the right.

[stevo-08]

AZOffaly, so who would you play on the right ahead of Kuyt? I am not his biggest fan and agree he has a very poor touch, but I'd have him on the team ahead of Benny/Pennant anyday. You could maybe argue that babel should be given a run on the right but again he hasnt been too convincing either.

Hard to believe that Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher & Kuyt have been the only 4 liverpool players to start every single PL game this season.

[corn02]

That's what I'm saying, if he is a striker, I can live with that. I will not be convinced, however, that he is the sort of creative right sided player that will open up teams who come to defend. Arbeloa is not a good enough attacking player to justify having a workhorse playing in front of him to give him freedom.

So I would definitely not say his form has been excellent, far from it. I would say he has chipped in with vital goals, no doubt, but maybe if a better player was wide right, we wouldn't be sweating on vital goals. He's the black hole for too many moves when he's on the right.

He has had a great start to the season, to say he has been far from excellent is wrong. I actually think his best work comes on the right. He done it against Bolton, Spurs etc who were heavily defending at the time. Arbeloa prosperrs with Kuyt in front of him. He has more freedom to attack because Kuyt will cover him defnesively probably better than any other winger in the Premiership. Arbeloas delivery has improved ten-fold as of late and it is mostly down to Kuyt withdrawing defenders. Sometime it doesn't come across on tv, but if your in the Anny Road or the Kop you can see firsat hand how intelligent Kutys' runs are how much space they create. Obviously, it would be better if it was Kuyt who was attacking this space, but, as you rightly point out, he doesn't have that ability. Despite this he plays a massive, massive role in that team. It is only when he is out injured that you will appreciate it.

[AZOffaly]

We'll have to agree to disagree so. I made a comment that if Kuyt plays more than 20 PL games, Liverpool will not win the League, and I stand by that.

As for the alternative to him, I think that at Anfield, against teams like Fulham, Stoke, Hull, etc etc etc, I'd be playing a 4-4-2 with Alonso and Masch in midfield, Gerrard on the Right and Reira on left. I'd play two of Kuyt/Torres/Keane up front.

In an ideal world, I'd buy a winger, like I was hoping for in the summer, and play that winger on the right, with Alonso/Masch playing with Gerrard in the middle, and again, Kuyt/Keane or Torres up front.

I'm going to conduc a scientific study over Christmas when I'm pigging out in front of the telly, and chart how many moves break down when they reach Kuyt, either due to a first touch that would get him bollocked out of it in the Phoenix Park, or from ridiculous passes going astray. I'd bet that there will be at least 15-20 of these in whatever game I choose.

I like the guy's work ethic, and I love the important goals he has scored, but I just cannot buy that he is an integral, every week starter on a team trying to win the league.

Also, please don't patronise me about being in the Anny Road end. I've watched enough soccer in my time to see things like that, and if we had Patrice Evra or someone coming forward, I could buy that argument of Kuyt essentially being a decoy. But we don't. Arbeloa is no marauding full back. He is at his best man marking people like Ronaldo, Messi etc. Kuyt should be the attacking force there.

[corn02]

Also, please don't patronise me about being in the Anny Road end. I've watched enough soccer in my time to see things like that, and if we had Patrice Evra or someone coming forward, I could buy that argument of Kuyt essentially being a decoy. But we don't. Arbeloa is no marauding full back. He is at his best man marking people like Ronaldo, Messi etc. Kuyt should be the attacking force there.

Care to point out what was patronising then?

If you can't admire Arbeloas increasing attack efficency you may study that as well at Christmas. There has been a significant increase in his attacking forrays and his delivery has improved massively.

[AZOffaly]

Sometime it doesn't come across on tv, but if your in the Anny Road or the Kop you can see firsat hand how intelligent Kutys' runs are how much space they create.

I read that as patronising. If it wasn't then apologies.

As for Arbeloa, how many assists has he got this year? I don't believe he has improved to a level that warrants playing a decoy right winger to allow him bomb up and down the line. He's obviously come on a good bit, but to suggest he is some sort of immense creative outlet is not true, in my opinion. I think some of the results speak for themselves in that respect.

[Fermanaghandsam]

Kuyt is a solid squad player, but no more than that. However at present he is prob our best option on the right side. For us to go on and win the title we badly need to buy a right winger. I would actully like to see Babel getting an exended run on the right wing from now to xmas, to see if he has what it takes. The team I would like Liverpool to play, esp at home

Riena
Arbeloa, Car, Agger, Aurelio
Babel, Alonso, Gerrard, Reira
Keane
Torres

Will Agger go in Jan, with hyypia getting on in front of him, I worry he will go??

[corn02]

Sometime it doesn't come across on tv, but if your in the Anny Road or the Kop you can see firsat hand how intelligent Kutys' runs are how much space they create.

I read that as patronising. If it wasn't then apologies.

As for Arbeloa, how many assists has he got this year? I don't believe he has improved to a level that warrants playing a decoy right winger to allow him bomb up and down the line. He's obviously come on a good bit, but to suggest he is some sort of immense creative outlet is not true, in my opinion. I think some of the results speak for themselves in that respect.

Certainly was not meant to come across as patronising and I apologise if it came across as that. I simply meant wqhen your looking at the place face on instead of head on you notice some different aspects.

Maybe your right about Arbeloa, for what it's worth I don't see him as a super creative outlet either, but there certainly has been significant imrovement from him this season. He generally bombs forward and gets decent delivery in.

I checked his stats 1 goal and 1 assist - not great  , but generally i think he has put a lot of good ball in.

[AZOffaly]

So my point still stands. Unless the right back is making a huge, measurable difference in terms of providing goals and assists, then I think it is very wasteful to have a right sided player, in a position which is nominally the more creative and dangerous one, being more of a worker than a real game changer.

I know I sound harsh on Kuyt, and it's not meant to be that way, but I do not think that Kuyt would get a regular game with United or Chelsea, and they have better attacking full backs than Liverpool. I would play him as a striker, or else in situations where you know you need someone with his brilliant work ethic on the right side.

He'd be a situational starter for me, not the first name on the teamsheet.

[stevo-08]

Will Agger go in Jan, with hyypia getting on in front of him, I worry he will go??

This is something I'm worried about also. He hasnt started the last 3 league games. Benitez needs to be very careful because Agger & Skrtel should be the future CB pairing. Contract talks are stalling and Milan are keeping a very close eye on proceedings.

[corn02]

Fair enough, I don;t think we are going to agree.

Juts to keep the argument going - Evra's stats for the season 0 goals and 1 assist.  

[AZOffaly]

Touché

[The Real Laoislad]

Momo Sissoko and himself could have a 'long touch' competition.

That made me laugh out loud 

[magpie seanie]

Someone made a point about the good run Liverpool went on from February last year. I'd suggest that squad rotation (which was blamed for the loss of so many points earlier in the season) meant the players were fresher that they'd be this season.

That said, the longer things go on with United and Chelsea (and Arsenal) playing rubbish the better Liverpools chances are. An early exit from Europe and the FA Cup would help their cause as their squad is quite thin.