2009 Grand Slam Champions

[Gnevin]

It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.

The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short.  Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over.  All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short.  How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.

Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much?  Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.

DG's are during the game play and adrenalin will always push it further.  A penalty is more controlled and you have more ability to manipulate.  Also DG's are normally closer in than most penalties.  I just found it strange how such an experienced kicker, one of the best in the game, rushed such an important game winning kick.  If someone did that in an AI final his hole would be rightly kicked.

I've seen T Feron talking less bollocks than you are currently

What's you're f**king problem arsewipe, a player who misses a penalty which he is more than capable of kicking, and I question it, what is wrong with that?  He clearly rushed the kick and was not that devastated by it.  Head in hands yes, but he wasn't too badly annoyed looking at him.  I personally think he would have kicked that over if Wales had been going for the Grand Slam instead of merely a Triple Crown.

My problem is your talking total shite, the kick was at the edge of his range. It's not like it was a 10 meter kick.  As was said before , why not just fluff the DG ?

[maddog]

No expert on rugby but do you not think with the intensity and hits that were going in that Jones simply wasnt fit to kick it that distance at that stage of the match ?
Either way thank god he didnt. (fot the sake of my TV as well)

[cavan4ever]

No expert on rugby but do you not think with the intensity and hits that were going in that Jones simply wasnt fit to kick it that distance at that stage of the match ?
Either way thank god he didnt. (fot the sake of my TV as well)

No he was well fit sure he wanted Ireland to win 

[bcarrier]

I would pick entire Irish pack with possible exception of Horan/ DOC for Lions.  The had a good discussion on setanta yesterday about it and guys talked about need to keep units that are used to playing together in Lions team.  Hayes is a completely unsung hero in this regard ....when POC is stealing the lineouts he is the hydraulic underneath...best tackle count on pitch too.

[Billys Boots]

Only my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?

It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.

Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice   

I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.

Well Dublin only lost because we wanted to be nice. Sure we can't win a game of football next week and we realised Tyrone deserved a bit more, I heard  Kerry did the same.

I still don't understand the analogy - are you trying to say, in your usual impenetrable fashion, that you think there's no place in sport for sporting behaviour?  There's no reason to bring Dublin into it, it just confuses people when you're talking about winning things.

Jones got the drop-goal when there was still time (6 mins) for Wales to score another try or two (had they won the ball on resumption) - he screwed that up with his kick to touch.  He knew the penalty would have won the game but not the championship for Wales (as the last kick of the game).  The kick was accurate, but didn't have the legs to get over.  I think (remember, it's just my opinion) O'Gara's reaction suggests that he (O'Gara) thought that Jones should have drilled it, but didn't.  Why else would you wear the opponents' jersey on the most important occasion ever in your own (jersey)??  I think it's an interesting psychological question, if no-one else does.  I'm genuinely not trying to rain on any parade. 

[Gnevin]

Only my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?

It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.

Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice   

I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.

Well Dublin only lost because we wanted to be nice. Sure we can't win a game of football next week and we realised Tyrone deserved a bit more, I heard  Kerry did the same.

I still don't understand the analogy - are you trying to say, in your usual impenetrable fashion, that you think there's no place in sport for sporting behaviour?  There's no reason to bring Dublin into it, it just confuses people when you're talking about winning things.

I'm making the point that this claim is as ridiculous as claiming Dublin or Kerry lost to Tyrone on purpose. I know it's not like to like as both teams could of won the big prize/progressed but BC's claim is so ridiculous it don't see the harm it extending it one further.

No your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !

[Billys Boots]

No your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !

I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying. 

[Hardy]

It's an interesting theory. Initially, it seemed outlandish to me, but there are few factors that lend it credence. There's no doubt that the kick was well within his range. He had one in the first half that was almost identical - not quite as straight in front and almost exactly the same distance, or, if anything, a little longer, given the wider angle. That one sailed at least a metre over the crossbar. I can't believe the strength in his legs would diminish so much that he couldn't kick a ball the anywhere close to the same distance as he could earlier. If you're going to miss, it would be easier to kick it wide, but that's seen as a miss and blameworhty, whereas if you drop it short, you're seen as having given it your best and it's not your fault it didn't have the distance, etc.

I still find it hard to believe a professional player would effectively throw a top level match. But ...

How do they get paid, by the way? If there are win bonuses, etc. that would be evidence against the deliberate miss theory.

[brokencrossbar1]

Deliberate miss or not, I firmly believe he did not give that last kick his all, whether consciously or unconsciously.  Place kickers are anal in their routines and he did not stick to his.  That would suggest to me someone who just wanted the kick out of the way.  If he was so tired that his legs were too tired to kick it that length ten logic would suggest he take a few extra seconds to compose himself.  He looked to me like someone who did not want to take the kick and got it out of the way as quickly as he could.

[stephenite]

It was a very, very high pressure kick, possibly the most important one of his career (?) That sort of pressure can do funny things, big difference between kicking practice and in the last 10 seconds of the last game of the competition with millions of eyes on you.

[Gnevin]

No your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !

I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying. 

I don't know how you can't . Your saying he felt of the Irish players , I can only assume he felt sorry/pity for them and so he missed .

[stephenite]

Why did O'Gara miss the penalty in the first half? Why did Dessie Dolan blast a sitter wide against Meath a few years back? I'm a cynical git at the best of times and it was the first thing that crossed my mind, but I'm not buying it now I've thought about it

[Dinny Breen]

If he was so tired that his legs were too tired to kick it that length ten logic would suggest he take a few extra seconds to compose himself.  He looked to me like someone who did not want to take the kick and got it out of the way as quickly as he could.

Strange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.

Any Liginds the whole lot of them.

[Billys Boots]

No your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !

I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying. 

I don't know how you can't . Your saying he felt of the Irish players , I can only assume he felt sorry/pity for them and so he missed .

I'm saying nothing of the sort - you're the only one who seems to think I am.  You could just as easily (if you weren't displaying partisan behaviour) read that he felt sorry/pity/despondent for Wales that they couldn't achieve their goal and that there was little point in giving his all to the kick.  

[Billys Boots]

Strange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.

I accept all that, with the proviso that he is a professional sportsman, and irrespective of his fatigue etc., all of his training/preparation would surely have made him do something different with so much at stake.  Am I reading too much into this?

And why, why, why, after his famous rant about 'the jersey', did O'Gara not wear it when he should have been most proud to wear it?