obama Inauguration

[Tyrones own]

but I completely understand why a man of his background might have such issues.

Of course you do, I'd expect nothing less... but what a time to air his deep rooted racism and prejudices than at the Inauguration of the very first black man to be elected president.
Funny how race was rarely an Issue with Dubya at the helm, how many times has it come to light now from within and he's been in office 3 days?...and not a peep out of the drive by media
it suits the fcukers to keep racism alive...use it as the proverbial stick so to speak to beat the white man with laying the foundation for affirmative action and such
and you have the cheek to stand up and try to brow beat me about playing the conservative victim card  Give me a break FFS

If he's proceeding from a false premise i.e. minorities and women are not in fact under-represented in the professions he's referring to, then make that case. Racism it is not however.

Really?.. Try having some right wing whacko as ye boy's so lovingly label us stand up and say the exact same thing except change the white Male to Black male ...it still wouldn't
be racist right?...or would it   Front page news would be an understatement **Shakes head**

Can you leave us out of your long drawn out pish? Thank you.

Have to laugh at the Consistent parallels with the North of Ireland being brought into these discussions as if to some how
"catch me out" in my views of the rights or wrongs of issues I have with the Country in which I reside and pay my taxes.
I was a teenager when I left Home and whatever feelings I had about things right and wrong have little bearing on my views
on the Treasonous inept governing of this country...so I'd appreciate it if you'd keep it here where it belongs

[J70]

but I completely understand why a man of his background might have such issues.

Of course you do, I'd expect nothing less... but what a time to air his deep rooted racism and prejudices than at the Inauguration of the very first black man to be elected president.

Funny how race was rarely an Issue with Dubya at the helm, how many times has it come to light now from within and he's been in office 3 days?...and not a peep out of the drive by media

How many times? That one phrase in Lowery's speech which they should have dropped. What else?

it suits the fcukers to keep racism alive...use it as the proverbial stick so to speak to beat the white man with laying the foundation for affirmative action and such
and you have the cheek to stand up and try to brow beat me about playing the conservative victim card  Give me a break FFS

I honestly don't know what you're saying in that second part. As for "keeping racism alive", you're going to have to come up with something better than a line in a speech by an 87 year old man who helped lead the struggle for civil rights. And again, I do not see how groups such as white males or christians or any of the other conservative victims are persecuted.

If he's proceeding from a false premise i.e. minorities and women are not in fact under-represented in the professions he's referring to, then make that case. Racism it is not however.

Really?.. Try having some right wing whacko as ye boy's so lovingly label us stand up and say the exact same thing except change the white Male to Black male ...it still wouldn't
be racist right?...or would it   Front page news would be an understatement **Shakes head**

Yes, because under-representation and history are irrelevant.

Can you leave us out of your long drawn out pish? Thank you.

Have to laugh at the Consistent parallels with the North of Ireland being brought into these discussions as if to some how
"catch me out" in my views of the rights or wrongs of issues I have with the Country in which I reside and pay my taxes.
I was a teenager when I left Home and whatever feelings I had about things right and wrong have little bearing on my views
on the Treasonous inept governing of this country...so I'd appreciate it if you'd keep it here where it belongs

Yet you repeatedly refuse to answer these questions on what are the same issues but in a different location. Your right of course, but if the north has such little bearing on your current views, why the reluctance? And no, I am not going to stop drawing such parallels.

[Tyrones own]

How many times? That one phrase in Lowery's speech which they should have dropped. What else?

What else? ....Is that one phrase not one too many? one that the great Uniter should be repudiating... that is of course
if much or any of the rhetoric was to be believed during his campaign..you remember, Change, Hope, equality, progress to name but a few
Believing he was in tune in with his promises, should he have repudiated those remarks or not.....?

I honestly don't know what you're saying in that second part.

Let me honestly remind you:
"The right wing never, ever stops complaining about getting a raw deal. They're worse than the unionists with their longing for victimhood, whether its christians or white males or the victims of the media whatever."

you're going to have to come up with something better than a line in a speech by an 87 year old man who helped lead the struggle for civil rights.

No it's more the stupidity of giving someone with his racist beliefs a microphone and a stage and not to have vetted his content, but then again he did sit and listen
to the wholesome Rev Wright for 17 years so it's very possible like yourself, Obama sees this as no big deal

And again, I do not see how groups such as white males or christians or any of the other conservative victims are persecuted.

Really? things must be fairly good for you in New York, maybe you should try living it in color here on the left coast sometime

Yes, because under-representation and history are irrelevant. Roll Eyes

In my experience of Affirmative action, it doesn't work.. actually, to your dismay, it's regardless of sex or skin color in my eyes..it is discrimination to the hard working
man or woman who actually want to be on the job site being forced to step aside to make way for the good for nothing welfare recipient with no training or aspiration
who turns out to be a danger to all around them and in my experience will do all in their power to get fired so he can go back to bitching about being held down by whitey 
Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up..two wrongs don't make a right

Yet you repeatedly refuse to answer these questions on what are the same issues but in a different location. Your right of course, but if the north has such little bearing on your current views, why the reluctance? And no, I am not going to stop drawing such parallels.

It's very simple really and no offense but I generally take the thoughts and points of people that aren't from the North with a pinch of salt when they start to portray how much they think they know..
..roll the eyes time if you know what I mean.

[carribbear]

Been following this argument with interest, have to say that I'm with Tyrone's Own on this one. That speech made by Lowery was a disgrace and those words certainly we're in keeping with giving the message that equality doesnt mean best person for the job, it means balancing things out to suit quotas.

This is a blow for all hard working people who currently are out of work and are going to be discriminated against and not because they aren't good enough to do a job

[J70]

How many times? That one phrase in Lowery's speech which they should have dropped. What else?

What else? ....Is that one phrase not one too many? one that the great Uniter should be repudiating... that is of course
if much or any of the rhetoric was to be believed during his campaign..you remember, Change, Hope, equality, progress to name but a few
Believing he was in tune in with his promises, should he have repudiated those remarks or not.....?

You implied that it was more than that one comment. I said thought the comment was ill advised in the circumstances - what else do you want me to say about it?

I honestly don't know what you're saying in that second part.

Let me honestly remind you:
"The right wing never, ever stops complaining about getting a raw deal. They're worse than the unionists with their longing for victimhood, whether its christians or white males or the victims of the media whatever."

You said "use it as the proverbial stick so to speak to beat the white man with laying the foundation for affirmative action". That refers to my earlier comment, does it?

you're going to have to come up with something better than a line in a speech by an 87 year old man who helped lead the struggle for civil rights.

No it's more the stupidity of giving someone with his racist beliefs a microphone and a stage and not to have vetted his content, but then again he did sit and listen
to the wholesome Rev Wright for 17 years so it's very possible like yourself, Obama sees this as no big deal

Possibly. As I said, I fully understand why a man like that would be bitter. The same with Rev Wright. I've said much worse than "god damn the united states" myself in the past.

And again, I do not see how groups such as white males or christians or any of the other conservative victims are persecuted.

Really? things must be fairly good for you in New York, maybe you should try living it in color here on the left coast sometime

You've been victimized then TO, have you?

Yes, because under-representation and history are irrelevant. Roll Eyes

In my experience of Affirmative action, it doesn't work.. actually, to your dismay, it's regardless of sex or skin color in my eyes..it is discrimination to the hard working
man or woman who actually want to be on the job site being forced to step aside to make way for the good for nothing welfare recipient with no training or aspiration
who turns out to be a danger to all around them and in my experience will do all in their power to get fired so he can go back to bitching about being held down by whitey 
Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up..two wrongs don't make a right

No generalizations to be seen here... There are people who will abuse anything in life - that does not make it wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion on affirmative action. I think it was perfectly justifiable.

Yet you repeatedly refuse to answer these questions on what are the same issues but in a different location. Your right of course, but if the north has such little bearing on your current views, why the reluctance? And no, I am not going to stop drawing such parallels.

It's very simple really and no offense but I generally take the thoughts and points of people that aren't from the North with a pinch of salt when they start to portray how much they think they know..
..roll the eyes time if you know what I mean.

WTF has whether I'm from the north or not got to do with anything? I never expressed an opinion on the north at all - I merely asked for your's.

"Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up..two wrongs don't make a right" you say. Does that or does that not apply to affirmative action for catholics in Northern Ireland?

[J70]

Been following this argument with interest, have to say that I'm with Tyrone's Own on this one. That speech made by Lowery was a disgrace and those words certainly we're in keeping with giving the message that equality doesnt mean best person for the job, it means balancing things out to suit quotas.

This is a blow for all hard working people who currently are out of work and are going to be discriminated against and not because they aren't good enough to do a job

Fair enough. I fully accept that there are good arguments against affirmative action - my main objection was labelling Reich a racist based on his comments.

[carribbear]

Been following this argument with interest, have to say that I'm with Tyrone's Own on this one. That speech made by Lowery was a disgrace and those words certainly we're in keeping with giving the message that equality doesnt mean best person for the job, it means balancing things out to suit quotas.

This is a blow for all hard working people who currently are out of work and are going to be discriminated against and not because they aren't good enough to do a job

Fair enough. I fully accept that there are good arguments against affirmative action - my main objection was labelling Reich a racist based on his comments.

Believe me, when you've been on the other end of 'affirmitive action' and 'positive discrimination' you see it for what it really is. I have.

[Tyrones own]

what else do you want me to say about it?

An answer to my question of whether Obama, in your opinion, should repudiate that speech would be a good start

I fully understand why a man like that would be bitter.

We could all have good reason to be bitter..doesn't make it politically correct to go speaking our minds
on a national stage now does it? but then again it's seems to be ok with you so long as it's a liberal Democrat
that keeps the light that is racism shining brightly............again

I've said much worse than "god damn the united states" myself in the past.

I'd believe it...sure most liberals are haters of everything this country once stood for..at least you don't deny it, i'll give you that

You've been victimized then TO, have you?

Effected Yes...I'll leave the victimization card to the Affirmative action proponents / welfare recipients

WTF has whether I'm from the north or not got to do with anything? I never expressed an opinion on the north at all - I merely asked for your's.

It would be a complete waste of time getting into something you would know absolutely nothing about, again... keep it here where it belongs

[J70]

what else do you want me to say about it?

An answer to my question of whether Obama, in your opinion, should repudiate that speech would be a good start

Yes, he should repudiate that line. Good enough?

I fully understand why a man like that would be bitter.

We could all have good reason to be bitter..doesn't make it politically correct to go speaking our minds
on a national stage now does it? but then again it's seems to be ok with you so long as it's a liberal Democrat
that keeps the light that is racism shining brightly............again

Sorry, but for me there is a big difference between an bitter old black man who grew up knowing the bitterness of repression and the KKK. If you think they're equivalent, fine, I am not going to convince you otherwise.

I've said much worse than "god damn the united states" myself in the past.

I'd believe it...sure most liberals are haters of everything this country once stood for..at least you don't deny it, i'll give you that

Or maybe we're not afraid to condemn the country when its called for. "America right or wrong" is horseshit.

You've been victimized then TO, have you?

Effected Yes...I'll leave the victimization card to the Affirmative action proponents / welfare recipients

Well, let's hope if you ever yourself in need of welfare that people have a little more sympathy for you than you do for current welfare recipients.

WTF has whether I'm from the north or not got to do with anything? I never expressed an opinion on the north at all - I merely asked for your's.

It would be a complete waste of time getting into something you would know absolutely nothing about, again... keep it here where it belongs

Yes, that's it, patronize and bluster so you don't have to answer the question.

[J70]

Been following this argument with interest, have to say that I'm with Tyrone's Own on this one. That speech made by Lowery was a disgrace and those words certainly we're in keeping with giving the message that equality doesnt mean best person for the job, it means balancing things out to suit quotas.

This is a blow for all hard working people who currently are out of work and are going to be discriminated against and not because they aren't good enough to do a job

Fair enough. I fully accept that there are good arguments against affirmative action - my main objection was labelling Reich a racist based on his comments.

Believe me, when you've been on the other end of 'affirmitive action' and 'positive discrimination' you see it for what it really is. I have.

I may well have already. So be it.

[stew]

I am a republican supporter over here, that said I wish Obama nothing but the best, he was light years ahead of anybody in the republician party and the right man got elected.

[Tyrones own]

Yes, he should repudiate that line. Good enough?

Kind of... but why hasn't he then in your opinion? all things considered

I am not going to convince you otherwise.

Yes and I believe that goes both ways.

Sorry, but for me there is a big difference between an bitter old black man who grew up knowing the bitterness of repression and the KKK.

Now you're confusing me...racism in any way shape or form is bad , right? for a minute there I thought you were making excuses for it

Or maybe we're not afraid to condemn the country when its called for. "America right or wrong" is horseshit.

Eh.... Ok, But sure from what I can gather..there's nothing right about this country from a liberal standpoint hence all the need for change.

Well, let's hope if you ever yourself in need of welfare that people have a little more sympathy for you than you do for current welfare recipients.

It better be there for me should I need it...I've paid enough in to it, unlike some

Yes, that's it, patronize and bluster so you don't have to answer the question.

Katie...is that you?
I'd say you know me well enough by now to know I don't take the Bait too often

I may well have already. So be it.

There's a saying for that kind of mentality, it's called
"Biting off your nose to spite your face"

[J70]

Yes, he should repudiate that line. Good enough?

Kind of... but why hasn't he then in your opinion? all things considered

I guess he doesn't think its an issue worth making a big deal over, whether out of respect for Lowery's life or whatever nefarious reason I'm sure you'll come up with.

I am not going to convince you otherwise.

Yes and I believe that goes both ways.

Sorry, but for me there is a big difference between an bitter old black man who grew up knowing the bitterness of repression and the KKK.

Now you're confusing me...racism in any way shape or form is bad , right? for a minute there I thought you were making excuses for it

No, I'm saying prejudice based on being on the receiving end of repression is morally different to prejudice based on your race's perceived superiority to another one. There is no justification for the latter, destructive as the former may be.

Or maybe we're not afraid to condemn the country when its called for. "America right or wrong" is horseshit.

Eh.... Ok, But sure from what I can gather..there's nothing right about this country from a liberal standpoint hence all the need for change.

Hyperbolic bullshit. Unless you're going to say that the complaints that will come from your side when the present government inevitably does something you abhorr will be similarly anti-American? Wanting a change in direction or in policy does not mean that you think there is nothing right about the country - it means you disagree with how it is being run with respect to certain issues, at that time.

Well, let's hope if you ever yourself in need of welfare that people have a little more sympathy for you than you do for current welfare recipients.

It better be there for me should I need it...I've paid enough in to it, unlike some

I pay plenty myself. So what?

Yes, that's it, patronize and bluster so you don't have to answer the question.

Katie...is that you?
I'd say you know me well enough by now to know I don't take the Bait too often

I don't expect you to, but it suggests to me you're afraid of being seen to have double standards.

I may well have already. So be it.

There's a saying for that kind of mentality, it's called "Biting off your nose to spite your face"

Perhaps, but I've no problem with it if it helps right some past wrongs.

[carribbear]

I am a republican supporter over here, that said I wish Obama nothing but the best, he was light years ahead of anybody in the republician party and the right man got elected.

Absolutely - in a two horse race he couldnt fail to win it. But therein lies the problem of old party politics and poor selection choices. the republicans had mccain nominated ages before the democrats got their act together but in hindsight he was a terrible choice. They should really look at themselves why they put forward a 72 year old and a novice governer and expect them to win.

The USA needs a 3rd party to really shake it up and make it a proper democratic society. And we thought FF and FG voters were entrenched....

I hope Obama gets his act together and starts to lead the country, its a hard road ahead.

[carribbear]

Been following this argument with interest, have to say that I'm with Tyrone's Own on this one. That speech made by Lowery was a disgrace and those words certainly we're in keeping with giving the message that equality doesnt mean best person for the job, it means balancing things out to suit quotas.

This is a blow for all hard working people who currently are out of work and are going to be discriminated against and not because they aren't good enough to do a job

Fair enough. I fully accept that there are good arguments against affirmative action - my main objection was labelling Reich a racist based on his comments.

Believe me, when you've been on the other end of 'affirmitive action' and 'positive discrimination' you see it for what it really is. I have.

I may well have already. So be it.

Thats not much use to you when you're out of work and living on the breadline