The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[gallsman]

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

Tick-tock son.

Apologies, It was directed at Gaffer, so it's of no concern to you. As for whether or not I am a bigot, I can categorically state that I am in no way a bigot and unlike you do not resort to insults in a debate. Perhaps you could explain how I am a bigot??

One, I didn't call you a bigot. I asked you if you were one.

Two, I put a proposal to you, asked you if you agreed with it and stated that if you did, you were a bigot. You read everything apparently though, so I'm not sure how you're confused over the issue.

Three, it clearly was of concern to be as you repeatedly accused me of dodging questions. If someone had joined the thread at that point and didn't understand the context of the discussion, then I'd look as if I wasn't prepared to answer any question put to me. However, that wouldn't have been as bad as the fool you now look so perhaps you should have stuck to your guns and continued to rant and rave without ever actually reading anything properly.

[ardmhachaabu]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

It's not sectarian, it is common sense to try and get someone into a seat (that SF are unlikely to win themselves) that share the same main objective.(ie. A united Ireland).  Nationalists believe in a United Ireland and they should be trying to strengthen their position, if that means using tactical voting or stepping aside then thats what they should do.  If believing in a United Ireland and trying to strengthen nationalism/ republicanism makes someone sectarian, then i'm guilty.  (personally dont regard it as being sectarian)

Was it common sense or sectarian when unionists did it ?

[Nally Stand]

Find me the exact link where I said that and quote it. You might be in for a surprise.

Do you want me to arrange a JCB for you? That spade must be borderline useless for now considering how deeply you've dug the hole you're stuck in.

Tick-tock son.

Apologies, It was directed at Gaffer, so it's of no concern to you. As for whether or not I am a bigot, I can categorically state that I am in no way a bigot and unlike you do not resort to insults in a debate. Perhaps you could explain how I am a bigot??

One, I didn't call you a bigot. I asked you if you were one.

Two, I put a proposal to you, asked you if you agreed with it and stated that if you did, you were a bigot. You read everything apparently though, so I'm not sure how you're confused over the issue.

Three, it clearly was of concern to be as you repeatedly accused me of dodging questions. If someone had joined the thread at that point and didn't understand the context of the discussion, then I'd look as if I wasn't prepared to answer any question put to me. However, that wouldn't have been as bad as the fool you now look so perhaps you should have stuck to your guns and continued to rant and rave without ever actually reading anything properly.

And once again you can only resort to personal attacks. Come on man, act with some maturity please.

[Ulick]

The approach of garnering public support based on sectarian headcounts rather than some sort of proper politics is sectarian.  I think that the SDLP's position is a non-sectarian one.  Pretending that politics in the north has nothing to do with what side of the fence you are on is somewhat naive to say the least Ulick

There you go again, but why is support for national determination in Ireland sectarian? That is the question I posed 7 or 8 pages back and no one has been able to explain it to me.

[gallsman]

And once again you can only resort to personal attacks. Come on man, act with some maturity please.

And once again I'll tell you that if you get so upset by someone calling you a fool you need some thicker skin. As for the "only" bit, there's an awful lot more in that post than me calling you a fool. I dunno, maybe you didn't read it thoroughly.

Perhaps now you could answer the question?

[Nally Stand]

ardmhachaabu, I even copied my post a second time for you because you admitted you didn't read it properly this morning. You still haven't replied to it. 

You mean this one?

I don't know about all this sectarian headcounting business. Surely the difference between the two sides is a constitutional matter not an ecumenical one as Fr Dougal might say? If you buy into the sectarian thing then you are also buying into the British led propaganda so prevalent in the 70s, 80s and 90s that we had a religious conflict here i.e. it was not about the constitutional position of the north and our right to complete self-determination. If the sectarian headcounting business is true where does that leave good Protestant nationalists like CS Parnell and good Protestant republicans like T Wolfe Tone?

I'm disappointed by Maskey's withdrawl as it leaves me no one to vote for as I promised myself after the last election that I wouldn't give Anna Lo another vote, however I find it hard to ague against a position which aims to maximise support for the Irish nationalist and republican position on the national question.

That approach is sectarian and anyone who supports that stance for reasons of sectarian headcounting is sectarian

It's not sectarian, it is common sense to try and get someone into a seat (that SF are unlikely to win themselves) that share the same main objective.(ie. A united Ireland).  Nationalists believe in a United Ireland and they should be trying to strengthen their position, if that means using tactical voting or stepping aside then thats what they should do.  If believing in a United Ireland and trying to strengthen nationalism/ republicanism makes someone sectarian, then i'm guilty.  (personally dont regard it as being sectarian)

Was it common sense or sectarian when unionists did it ?

Two reasons why the unionist pact in FST is sectarian.

1. It was instigated by the Orange Order

2. It aims to produce a Unionist MP in what is a constituency with a nationalist majority.

The SDLP choose to facilitate this.

Having political viewpoints that differ from someone elses (i.e. unionist vs nationalist) is not sectarian. It is politics.

[ardmhachaabu]

The approach of garnering public support based on sectarian headcounts rather than some sort of proper politics is sectarian.  I think that the SDLP's position is a non-sectarian one.  Pretending that politics in the north has nothing to do with what side of the fence you are on is somewhat naive to say the least Ulick

There you go again, but why is support for national determination in Ireland sectarian? That is the question I posed 7 or 8 pages back and no one has been able to explain it to me.

There you go again, I didn't say support for national determination in Ireland was sectarian.  Did I?

I said that getting people's support based on sectarian headcounts is sectarian.  That's what I said, stop trying to twist it. 

[Ulick]

There you go again, I didn't say support for national determination in Ireland was sectarian.  Did I?

I said that getting people's support based on sectarian headcounts is sectarian.  That's what I said, stop trying to twist it.

Getting their support for the position of national self-determination? It's the same thing.

[gallsman]

NS, why is the SF withdrawal any different? Trying to secure a nationalist seat in South Belfast which has a unionist majority.

I pointed out that believing what's good for the goose is bad for the gander is bigoted, and you've just confirmed this as your point of view.

Good night.

[MW]

That's your political fantasy for the coming years? "A series of demoralising blows" to themmuns?

Also dreaming of "a big f**k you" to every single unionist in Northern Ireland...my, my, elections really do bring out the worst in some people here don't they

To unionists and unionism, yes - don't take it so personally. Im an Irish republican, what do you want me to do - go out and canvas for Jim Allister?

Well, looking from my own "side", I think it's possible to want to retain the Union without hoping for "a big f**k you" to anyone who wants powers over NI going to Dublin.

[MW]

Let's not forget that FST is mainly nationalist and the motivations for the unionist pact were purely sectarian as it was instigated by the Orange Order with the aim of securing a unionist MP to represent a majority nationalist area. The stoops in their bitterness and intransigience are facilitating this.

So, you think it's wrong to try to secure a nationalist MP for a majority unionist constituency?

Very little substance there Gallsman. Your suggestion the SDLP are running McKinney in order to represent voters in FST who don't vote SF belies the fact that McKinney doesn't have a hope in hell of winning. By running for the seat the SDLP allow the minority political viewpoint to represent the majority – not exactly representative democracy in action.

Surely by withdrawing in South Belfast, SF are trying to achieve the same?

[ardmhachaabu]

There you go again, I didn't say support for national determination in Ireland was sectarian.  Did I?

I said that getting people's support based on sectarian headcounts is sectarian.  That's what I said, stop trying to twist it.

Getting their support for the position of national self-determination? It's the same thing.

No it's not, the unionists have done what you suggested and are every bit as sectarian in that scenario, I really don't think that supports your argument

[Nally Stand]

And once again you can only resort to personal attacks. Come on man, act with some maturity please.

And once again I'll tell you that if you get so upset by someone calling you a fool you need some thicker skin. As for the "only" bit, there's an awful lot more in that post than me calling you a fool. I dunno, maybe you didn't read it thoroughly.

Perhaps now you could answer the question?

The thickness of my skin should not have to be an issue as if you had any sense of decency in debate, you would not feel the need to resort to petty personal attacks.

Now considering I already explained that I am not a bigot, exactly what question would you like me to answer? And as for your mention of South Belfast, talk of a pact there came as a result of the sectarian pact among unionists/orange order in FST. And I see once again you are incapable of discussing a topic without more personal insults. Pathetic at this stage. If you haven't the confidence in your own argument, then stop posting. Personal insults make you look desperate and unconvincing.

[mylestheslasher]

How about introducing a rule that says that every "major" party must field a candidate in each electoral area and also introduce proportional representation (major of course would have to be defined in some way).

[ardmhachaabu]

How about introducing a rule that says that every "major" party must field a candidate in each electoral area and also introduce proportional representation (major of course would have to be defined in some way).

That's a sensible suggestion. PR could possibly help the political landscape in the north to evolve along left/right lines rather than the depressing sectarian tribal drivel which exists at the moment