Armagh v Down- 29th June-Ulster Semi Final Thread

[Tyrones own]

Fair play to Armagh - seasoned campaigners who gave Benny the "treatment" and Down's attack floundered after that - 2 points from play in 70 - 75 minutes football from Doown tells it all.

What does this say about Tyrone?

.....Was wondering how long that would take.. I had the opportunity to be at the 2nd Tyrone game and Down really could do no wrong imo, I think the difference was that Down had
  been training for and had their homework done on Tyrone for months and by the way they were celebrating after the win cemented that for me, it was like an all Ireland to them.
I congratulated all around me but could only hope that they'd carry a little momentum into the next game but that didn't happen, Donegal rings a bell here.
Regarding the Down supporters, they really do have some winners amongst them alright, Booing Free kicks, cheering wides and one gobshite behind me berating the ref at one point
for giving a wide and not a corner   .. just about summed up the experience for me.
Well done the Orchard lads... Fermanagh for the next one though

[Buckass]

Leo,
do you think Armagh would've left McComiskey unmarked in forwards as extra man?
The team with 14 can ultimately decide who spare player is. Don't think 2 more players front of Armagh goals was gonna help Down.

[stew]

Armaghs best twelve would have beaten that crowd today.

Down are stsrting to come but they dont know how to sustain form as of yet, they are far too inconsistent to be considered a real threat yet but they are coming.

We have owned them for nearly two decades. 

Fermanagh will be a good test for armagh however the big occasion should suit Armagh and I fully expect us to win another Ulster.

The real work begins post Ulster championship.

[Goats Do Shave]

First & foremost, I'm delighted with the win. I'd much prefer Armagh to be winning ugly & by a couple of points, than to be racking up huge scores... at this stage of the season! We'll hopefully peak at the right time!

I thought we were cleaned out around the middle in the second half, which cut up the supply Ronan & Stevie were getting in the first half. This was partly to do with big Dan, but also due to the fact we'd lost our main forager around the middle, in Martin O'Rourke. I thought it was a harsh decision to send him off, he was in the air, attempting to win the ball, only for his momentum to carry him on (in to Rafferty? – who was a disgrace for the way he went down!) – Furthermore, the referee had already turned his back, to follow the ball, before MOR landed on Rafferty. He saw the Newry man on the deck & has presumed MOR has done something!

Interestingly, Peter had Brian Mallon warming up in the 1st half, to replace MOR, only to hold back once the goal went in.

I also thought that the Down forwards in possession lacked options, so they were running down blind alleys, outnumbered, going to ground and winning frees. A stronger referee would have seen this!

To say Howard had an outstanding game seems strange, I don't recall him dispossessing Stevie or getting a ball ahead of him once in the game! Stevie doesn't go past players anymore; he wins the ball & lays it off! – How many scores was he involved with?

Ronan again was immense, a pleasure to watch! Our defence too was first class!

[Smokin Joe]

I was a strange game in some respects.
Armagh totally owned the ball for the first 10 - 15 minutes and went 3 points up playing against a very strong breeze.  However, after that time we barely won a ball in midfield all day - Dan Gordon was immense.

It was worrying from an Armagh point of view that management felt we didn't have a midfielder worth bringing on with fresh legs (despite the fact that we have 4 or 5 on the bench).  If neither Toner or McGrane was replaced yesterday, then quite simply they will not be replaced all year - I just felt we should have done something at midfield to try to shake things up.

Ronan Clarke was immense (quite simply the best full forward in Ireland), he won every single ball and his shooting was immense - his second point with the outside of the right boot was unbelievable, closely followed by his left footed point when there was just a point in it (I think) in the middle of the second half.
I was surprised that Ross Carr was happy for McCartan and Howard to pick up Clarke and McDonnell by themselves without dropping a 3rd man back there, because quite simply this was where Armagh won the match yesterday.

I'd say that Benny Coulter was happy at 5.35pm yesterday evening to be able to run more than 3 yards away from Ciaran McKeever.  McKeever was obviously just intent on spoiling Coulter all day, and you would have to say that it worked.

Not quite sure why Brendan Donaghy was the first man called ashore, I thought he had a great game, and given where Francie played most of the match I would have been replacing Francie.

Charlie Vernon is an enigma, going forward there is no one stronger and more powerful, but he seems to make "stupid" mistakes like a bad toe tap or easily losing possession.

Paddy McKeever will be lucky to wearing the number 11 jersey against Fermanagh and Stephen Kernan showed tremendous skills and vision with the ball in hand, so no doubt that he is worthy of his place.

Aidan O'Rourke - to think that JK thought we could do without him last year  

All in all Armagh did what we had to do, though midfield still worries me.  We were atrocious at midfield during the league, and were again today.  Now we'll not come up against Dan Gordon every week, but at the same time we'll not meet anything as weak as the Cavan midfield either.

[Malone Aristocrat]

And, the great thing about the match being in Clones, will be the glorious drive home through Armagh, with the Down flags flying to celebrate our win!

Remind me again - how many times have Armagh won the All Ireland?

Armagh are a team on their knees hoping for one last howray.
Yes Down are a division 3 team, Armagh should have no difficulty in winning if league form is to be believed.
The thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title.

I see this game as a fascinating battle between the old and the the new rich.  Between Good and evil and between fine silk threads and a stolen jumper.   Armagh are in dreamland - the country is talking about them, which is alll they wanted anyway, and they have had to play very little football to have this reputation.   Armagh will be very concious that they have now won an awful lot of Ulster titles and yet have consistently failed to get it up on the big occasion. 
Put this into context - Armagh have won 6 of the last 9 ulsters, have appeared in 2 all Irelands and one of them they took the back door route, Deep in their psychie will be the knowledge that Armagh footballers have an underachieveing gene in their make up - and that cant be nice. Armagh will be happy enough to plod away through the back door after this weekend where a meeting with Tyrone awaits them.   
Down by 5 

Its the Aristocracy v Nouveau Riche. A team that wants to play fast flowing, attractive football v puke football. Down play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Armagh think they invented football in 2002. The tide is turning in Ulster, the favourites are dropping like horses at the canal turn on Grand National day. proper order to be restored on Sunday evening. Down by 5 points.

Bellew to go off (if he can climb out of bennys pocket) with a fake injury because he's getting roasted

Ambrose will get man of the match with 4 points from play

Paul McGrane to announce his retirement after the game.......... again!!!

Could you just explain one little thing to me. What was it like standing in Croke Park in 2003 watchin Peter Canavan lift Sam. What was it like to stand there as a loser. Was it as bad as 77 or 53 ? Is it worse to lose to another Ulster team in an All Ireland final than it is to our southern counterparts? Just explain to us Down men what its like 

Obviously most of these contributions came in the final few days when the dawning of reality led the kids to cling to whatever they could – ancient history.

[brokencrossbar1]

Like Goats, I agree it is good at this stage to win ugly, but what would worry me about yesterday was that they could not get more out of a poor back line.  An incident that sticks out in my mind and sums up the forward play was Vernon's shot on goal which McVeigh saved.  The move up to it was lovely, intricate and Vernon made a great burst through the middle into space.  After having done all the hard work he shot straight down McVeighs neck.  At training we always tell lads to take the keeper on and make it easy for yourslef.  Everything was done right up to the last minute when the wrong option was taken.  Too many wrong decisions were made which left a game which could have be easly won a harder task.

Overall, the backs were solid, McKeever was excellent on Coulter, but you have to factor in how poor tyhe Down forward line were.   They offered no threat whatsoever, and that is not just reflective of how well Armagh played.  

Midfield were second best for long periods but for all Gordon's ball winning they had very little end product.  I agree that there should have been a change and McKenna or O'Neill could have nicely slotted in their, or Vernon moved out and Mallon brought on earlier.

In the forwards, Stephen, Steven and Clarke played well, Clarke is playing a la 2002 only he is stronger.  Vernon got plenty of ball but his decision making is questionable.  McKeever looks very unfit and seems like he is a stone overweight, maybe it is the new kit .  MOR is a pain.  He does all the right stuff, winning ball playing it off easy, maybe not scoring but setting up plenty.  Then he does something ridiculous like yesterday and thsi will end up causing Aragh in the long run.  It wasn't harsh, if you see the replay he clearly follows through and he did so very dangerously and could have caused serious damage.  It was a minimum yellow and I have seen people getting red for ones mnot much more serious than yesterday.  It Armagh see themselves as serious contenders they need him to soften his niggly side and focus on the foraging that he does so well.

All in all it was satisfactory but unspectacular.  Fermanagh will be an odd challenge and it will be a good measure of Peter's motivational abilities to see where he has them in 3 weeks.

[Leo]

A very fair assessment brokencrossbar1, and especially refreshing to see an Armagh supporter give ann honest assessment of the MOR- Rafferty incident which was actually very serious and the type of tackle that needs to be eliminated from the game. Imputations that Rafferty made a meal of it (a la that clown Davis on RTE) are so wide of the mark and unjust on an honest young player who needed intensive medical treatment on the spot and is doubtful for the qualifiers.
Those who can't tsee the seriousness of high and reckless follow-throughs are either clowns or hopelessly blinkered partisans.
Well done to a much better team on the day, and better prepared! More pysically suited to the modern game, well conditioned and tactically aware. They will beat Fermanagh.

[Boozehell]

First & foremost, I'm delighted with the win. I'd much prefer Armagh to be winning ugly & by a couple of points, than to be racking up huge scores... at this stage of the season! We'll hopefully peak at the right time!

I thought we were cleaned out around the middle in the second half, which cut up the supply Ronan & Stevie were getting in the first half. This was partly to do with big Dan, but also due to the fact we'd lost our main forager around the middle, in Martin O'Rourke. I thought it was a harsh decision to send him off, he was in the air, attempting to win the ball, only for his momentum to carry him on (in to Rafferty? – who was a disgrace for the way he went down!) – Furthermore, the referee had already turned his back, to follow the ball, before MOR landed on Rafferty. He saw the Newry man on the deck & has presumed MOR has done something!

Interestingly, Peter had Brian Mallon warming up in the 1st half, to replace MOR, only to hold back once the goal went in.

I also thought that the Down forwards in possession lacked options, so they were running down blind alleys, outnumbered, going to ground and winning frees. A stronger referee would have seen this!

To say Howard had an outstanding game seems strange, I don't recall him dispossessing Stevie or getting a ball ahead of him once in the game! Stevie doesn't go past players anymore; he wins the ball & lays it off! – How many scores was he involved with?

Ronan again was immense, a pleasure to watch! Our defence too was first class!

As far as the Martin O'Rourke sending off incident it was about time the dirt ball got the red card he has benn deserving to get all his career especially the elbow he did in the first half. 

[screenexile]

Watched the match with great interest yesterday as I feel Armagh are very definite contendors for this year's All Ireland and while The Cavan match had me convinced they were this matchshowed me that Armagh have a long long way to go to be considered contendor's again.

Against Cavan Armagh looked comfortable throughout and I always felt they had too much for them. Down yesterday were woeful and yet they kicked a bagful of wides and still had a chance in the game right to the end.

Armagh's inability to pull away from teams will ultimately be their downfall. They will own possession and Stevie and Ronan will get some great scores but unless they can capitalise more on their advantage they will lose games. Last year Armagh were head and shoulders above both Derry and Armagh yet they just hung into both games and because they weren't put away Donegal got their sucker punch goal and Derry their sucker punch point to beat them.

As Brolly has said Fermanagh are an awful team to play against, awkward and sticky and plenty of hunger and belief in themselves. Derry should've put them away after 20 mins in Omagh but when they didn't Fermanagh were able to come back strong. If Armagh aren't 5/6 points up with 5/10 to go they could find themselves in severe trouble again although I still fancy that their experience will carry them through the Ulster Final... it won't be wnough for the AI though.

[balladmaker]

Does anyone know what the story is with McDonnell's inability to take a man on and draw a free.  Even last year, he seemed to have lost the edge to run at defenders, try to get around them, and at least draw a free.

Oisin McConville is the master at this, but I was concerned by Stevie running up blind alleys as he appeared to have no where else to go. 

[INDIANA]

similar to the dublin game, i thought it was an incredibly disappointing game. Armagh are fouling incessantly when there is no need to especially when they have a good defenisve structure.. However there midfield will prevent them landing the Big One this season. You'd wonder will anyone mount a challenge to Kerry this season.

[RadioGAAGAA]

A few points (from a Down perspective):

1. I counted 5 or 6 times down gave the ball to Armagh with a poor pass, and the result was an Armagh point. Some very sloppy passing, and pass selection.

2. Midfield was excellent for most of the game in terms of winning the ball. Distribution was not so hot.

3. The use of the extra man was extremely poor. Damien Rafferty was deployed within the full back line, not 10-15 yards ahead of it. There is no point having two fellas make the exact same tracking run. Eventually they moved him outfield, but it was a little late.

4. More poor shooting (and to an extent free taking). Yesterdays team had essentially two free takers, Aidan Carr and Liam Doyle, when Doyle got injured that was just one (right footed free taker), down suffered as a result of a right footer trying to hit over from the right side of the pitch.

5. The pass in to the inside forwards from the midfield half backs was frequently poor, too high or with too much backspin inducing a big bounce. The hesitation gave the Armagh full backs time to nail the Down forwards. In contrast, McDonnell and Clarke were getting high quality passes properly weighted.

[bcarrier]

Armagh had that bit more composure under pressure ( and Stephen Kernan). I dont think they are anything like as good as the 1999- 2003 version and to be fair players of the quality of McGeeney/McConville/ Marsden/ McEntees  dont grow on trees ( except maybe in Kerry). Ultimately with Doyle going off the anticipated Down advantage in free taking did not materialise and probably proved decisive.

Ambrose and Gordon ( though both occasionally wasteful in front of posts) should give Down a solid midfield for seasons ahead . There is also some hope that our much maligned defence is improving. Armaghs total was not exceptional and Down were undone by a lack of fire power and composure up front.

Expectations of Benny are too high and his record does not match the legend. His average score in championship football is 0.5 goals-01 points per game ..ie 2.5 points per game. Its only adequate. His kicking from feet is probably below average for an inter county forward and the speed which made him in his youth is in decline. Still I have no doubt he is trying his best and wouldnt question his selection. He works hard. Some of his and Colgans pass choices yesterday were shocking. I would perserve with Colgan  ...he had a poor start but got up to the pace of the match as it progressed and wsa picking up a bit of ball near the end.

All in all not too disappointed ...Down are on an upward move and if they can keep Doyle fit and get Cole back might manage some run in the qualifers. It would be worth it just to spite da bollix from Donegal ( mind you he would probably claim credit then).

[mackers]

Agree with a lot that has been said by the Armagh posters here, concerns over the midfield sector throughout the league resurfaced yesterday. Gordon always seemed to be in position for the catch before McGrane and therefore left McGrane jumping behind him. MOR getting sent off left us with our main breaking ball winner on the line and it could've cost us the match. I have sung his praises quite a bit on the board but yesterday he showed all his negative points. Like Goats I noticed that Brian Mallon was ready to come on presumably for MOR as it was obvious that the red mist had descended and it was only a matter of time before he was sent off. Benny O'Kane was constantly running over to him to try to settle him.
Thought that Aidan started off poorly but as the game went on he became very influential. Charlie Vernon started off like a house on fire but several big hits took it out of him and eventually he blew a gasket. Yes, he does make a few mistakes but Jaysus lads it was his second championship match, he's still settling in, give him time, bit like Stephen Kernan who's just now starting to show what a good player he is.
Ronan Clarke was awesome and as somebody else said he is the best full forward in Ireland (and that includes Kieran Donaghy).
Ciaran McKeever had a great game and showed that he can play as well as a defensive stopper as he can as an attacking wing back, he really has it all. See the Irish News and a few posters on here calling him cynical but him and Coulter were at it all the way through the match.
I am concerned about the Fermanagh match as they will run at us in the same way as Down did and we need to be more disciplined in our tackling, haven't got a chance to watch the rerun but it felt at the time that McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees. We may face the same scenario in the final.