Things that make you go What the F**k?

[SaffronSports]

A lot of surprisingly subservient posters on here.

[RedHand88]

I am definitely not a tin foil hat guy nor an arch-libertarian

But this digital ID makes me very uneasy also

I just see too many ways for governments to exploit it and I don't think the case for it is even close to being made

Imagine there was a digital ID in the 70's and 80's here - where the RUC could track your every move

Has anyone put forward a convincing argument for it yet?

How does a digital ID track your every move? Have any of you actually read what it would do?

[Franko]

I am definitely not a tin foil hat guy nor an arch-libertarian

But this digital ID makes me very uneasy also

I just see too many ways for governments to exploit it and I don't think the case for it is even close to being made

Imagine there was a digital ID in the 70's and 80's here - where the RUC could track your every move

Has anyone put forward a convincing argument for it yet?

How does a digital ID track your every move? Have any of you actually read what it is for?

I haven't, I'll be totally honest

But I don't really need to because I can guarantee it says absolutely nothing which is in any way nefarious

Like they're ever going to say anything else

But I know what it 'could' be used for under the guise of 'prevention of terrorism' or some such bullshit

Next thing there will be a camera similar to ANPR which can read digital ID's (but we'll never look at it unless we need to - I promise)

We'll be walking RFID tags

Could you tell me why you think it IS necessary?

[trileacman]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

[armaghniac]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

If people are not paying their share, then everyone else has to pay more. And if they are employing illegal immigrants then it is even worse. The digital id might actually be convenient for people that are regular, but Starmer has over sold the whole thing.

[Franko]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

Why can't they do that now?

[DaleCooper]

Starmer was under relentless attack in recent times. He used to be against it, now hes for it all of a sudden.

I sense the strong pimp hand of one Anthony Blair, New Ruler of Gaza. Mixed up with Oracle and an evangelist of surveillance capital.

Control of migration is trivial , it is being done purely for political reasons. Recall this was going on even when they had their own citizens locked down.

[trileacman]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

If people are not paying their share, then everyone else has to pay more. And if they are employing illegal immigrants then it is even worse. The digital id might actually be convenient for people that are regular, but Starmer has over sold the whole thing.

IMO Cash operations are a vital part of any economy and wiping them out of existence is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Whilst guys getting cash off the books means less tax they also have no workers rights, no pension, no sick, no redundancy. Throwing all these workers into PAYE will produce a small increase in the tax take but a massive hike in the cost for small businesses, construction being the main one. I'd safely say it could add 10-20% onto all construction costs, not good for a government looking to invest in infrastructure or housing. Also it adds an unsustainable burden on small construction businesses (guys with a van or 2) meaning most of them choose to fold into large construction outfits. These large businesses can't diversify in a recession or downturn in business and go under/shafting the thousands who are employed by them. Happens all the time.

Also there's a large cohort of people who work off the books for businesses and if the businesses are forced to choose between firing them and putting them on the books they'll just fire them. People on benefits, are one example, DLA John Doe sweeping a building site 2 day a week for £200 cash is a lot healthier for the economy and society than DLA John Doe watching loose women Mon-Fri.

[AustinPowers]

Starmer was under relentless attack in recent times. He used to be against it, now hes for it all of a sudden.

I sense the strong pimp hand of one Anthony Blair, New Ruler of Gaza. Mixed up with Oracle and an evangelist of surveillance capital.

Control of migration is trivial , it is being done purely for political reasons. Recall this was going on even when they had their own citizens locked down.

Euan Blair , the spawn of Satan himself,   owns the company that will  benefit from the new digital ID. Making the software, Apps or something.

But sure , nothing  to see here.

[AustinPowers]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

Maybe only 25-30+ years ago ,  cash was  the vast  majority of all transactions. How did  any government ever manage to collect any tax at all , with  the whole country  seemingly  on the fiddle. I guess those  schools, hospitals and roads must  have built themselves.

But I'd imagine when they collect  those extra pennies  from  the last of those tax avoiders ,  the NHS can be fixed , and we'll all live in a land of  milk and honey.

[trileacman]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

Maybe only 25-30+ years ago ,  cash was  the vast  majority of all transactions. How did  any government ever manage to collect any tax at all , with  the whole country  seemingly  on the fiddle. I guess those  schools, hospitals and roads must  have built themselves.

But I'd imagine when they collect  those extra pennies  from  the last of those tax avoiders ,  the NHS can be fixed , and we'll all live in a land of  milk and honey.

Yeah that's reeves take on it anyway.

[armaghniac]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

If people are not paying their share, then everyone else has to pay more. And if they are employing illegal immigrants then it is even worse. The digital id might actually be convenient for people that are regular, but Starmer has over sold the whole thing.

IMO Cash operations are a vital part of any economy and wiping them out of existence is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Whilst guys getting cash off the books means less tax they also have no workers rights, no pension, no sick, no redundancy. Throwing all these workers into PAYE will produce a small increase in the tax take but a massive hike in the cost for small businesses, construction being the main one. I'd safely say it could add 10-20% onto all construction costs, not good for a government looking to invest in infrastructure or housing. Also it adds an unsustainable burden on small construction businesses (guys with a van or 2) meaning most of them choose to fold into large construction outfits. These large businesses can't diversify in a recession or downturn in business and go under/shafting the thousands who are employed by them. Happens all the time.

Also there's a large cohort of people who work off the books for businesses and if the businesses are forced to choose between firing them and putting them on the books they'll just fire them. People on benefits, are one example, DLA John Doe sweeping a building site 2 day a week for £200 cash is a lot healthier for the economy and society than DLA John Doe watching loose women Mon-Fri.

Somebody else who is paying their tax is paying for DLA John Doe.
But this is also to do with immigration, which has to be reduced. If there are less illegals working for half nothing then perhaps DLA John Doe can get a job.

[Franko]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

Maybe only 25-30+ years ago ,  cash was  the vast  majority of all transactions. How did  any government ever manage to collect any tax at all , with  the whole country  seemingly  on the fiddle. I guess those  schools, hospitals and roads must  have built themselves.

But I'd imagine when they collect  those extra pennies  from  the last of those tax avoiders ,  the NHS can be fixed , and we'll all live in a land of  milk and honey.

Yeah that's reeves take on it anyway.

I ask again - what's stopping this approach being taken now?

[trileacman]

This policy has nothing to do with big brother or tracking our every move. in essence it's a shakedown by the Inland Revenue disguised as a restriction on immigrant labour.

Basically the Labour government are broke and are looking to force  employees or services paid in cash into paying income tax and NI. There's loads of small businesses that operate with cash, avoiding most of the regulation and taxation that Whitehall are looking to control. I would imagine the end stage of this legislation is that tax inspectors can walk into businesses or building sites and demand to see the tax identity data for workers, fining or shutting businesses that are unable to provide them.

It's a pure con job in my opinion and another fatal error by this Labour government, more interested in shaking down businesses for a few more tax pennies than looking to increase growth or national productivity.

Maybe only 25-30+ years ago ,  cash was  the vast  majority of all transactions. How did  any government ever manage to collect any tax at all , with  the whole country  seemingly  on the fiddle. I guess those  schools, hospitals and roads must  have built themselves.

But I'd imagine when they collect  those extra pennies  from  the last of those tax avoiders ,  the NHS can be fixed , and we'll all live in a land of  milk and honey.

Yeah that's reeves take on it anyway.

I ask again - what's stopping this approach being taken now?

From the BBC

"Employers will no longer be able to rely on a National Insurance number - which is currently used as part of proof of right to work - or paper-based checks.
At the moment, it is quite easy to borrow, steal or use someone else's National Insurance number and that is part of the problem in the shadow economy - people sharing National Insurance numbers for example. The idea is that having a picture attached would make it - in theory - harder to abuse that system."

[trileacman]

quote author=armaghniac link=msg=2365183 date=1759190044]

Somebody else who is paying their tax is paying for DLA John Doe.
But this is also to do with immigration, which has to be reduced. If there are less illegals working for half nothing then perhaps DLA John Doe can get a job.

He won't. By getting a job he'll lose his benefits and so the only way to get John Doe back into the economy is for him to get a job that will pay him more than his benefits. If he's 40 years + and doesn't have a very decent college degree the chances of him gaining good employment are next to nil. John Doe will stay at home, lift his benefits and contribute nothing to the economy.