Armagh Club football & hurling

[general_lee]

Tyrone & Down do premier reserve leagues & championships just fine

Do they though?

[Armagh18]

Tyrone & Down do premier reserve leagues & championships just fine

Do they though?

i'd be in favour of playing them before the senior game

[general_lee]

From what I can tell Lissummon put in a motion blocking anymore than 3 IIs teams entering the JFC (or 16 teams overall). And Armagh being a county full of (too many) small clubs with their small club mentality voted in favour (funny they all cry about having to fork out £2k but not a peep when it comes to getting a full vote at convention lol).

All Junior clubs will automatically qualify regardless of league position, 2nds teams will be confined to a Junior B competition (so basically the Reserve championship has just been rebranded)

Harsh in the extreme. The reality is that all Clubs have a right to put forward a motion that is in their own best interests, and in this case it is not too much of a stretch to say that this issue could be one that could potentially end up seeing smaller Clubs fold. Interests do not get much greater than that.

The Lissummon delegate spoke brilliantly on behalf of the motion, and made it clear that the motion was based on a joint view of six or seven other Clubs, with whom they had been in touch, prior to the meeting.

Let's call it like it is - if the thing was being done right, there would be no need for this motion, as all Reserve Teams would be playing in their own Reserve league. That is not the fault of the Lissummons of this world. 

I don't think it's harsh at all. Why should footballers be held back because a handful of junior clubs don't like the idea of playing a IIs team? It goes against the ethos of promoting our games. Clubs have entered IIs teams for decades, how that suddenly impacts on rural clubs folding is beyond me. Was there much opposition to Killeavy IIIs (or Killean to you and me) restarting? Or is an easy 4 points nothing to get annoyed over?

If CE, Cross or anyone else is capable of fielding a strong second string that can compete in the upper end of Junior or even Intermediate football, why shouldn't they? Why should they be perennially restricted to playing other reserve teams? Is it a pride thing? Are they embarrassed?

CE humbled a few teams in both Junior and Intermediate, including a now senior team for 2025. If some people in this county had their way those CE players would be confined to only ever playing reserve football.

[statto]

Tyrone & Down do premier reserve leagues & championships just fine

Do they though?

i'd be in favour of playing them before the senior game

that's going to struggle to work if games are continued to be played on Friday nights especially in March and April.

[Armagh18]

Tyrone & Down do premier reserve leagues & championships just fine

Do they though?

i'd be in favour of playing them before the senior game

that's going to struggle to work if games are continued to be played on Friday nights especially in March and April.

Hadn't thought of that bit lol

[Rufus T Firefly]

These players are all Junior standard players surely, irrespective of what club they are playing with?

Why do Lissummon, etc. feel Junior players from other clubs have an advantage other than anything they create by the sweat of their brow?

Population, and with that, size of Club (playing membership) and associated resources. Many of these Clubs putting Reserve Teams into the Junior will have population catchments far beyond many of the Junior Clubs.

[DuffleKing]

I really don't think that's an issue. If a club has 20 - 24 players to play in the Junior league I don't see a lot of difference really. A seconds team will probably find it harder to find coaches, somewhere to train and support generally if clubs are investing in a senior team.

As someone has mentioned, there could be county standard players in the first teams but some of the second teams i'm aware of would be very far down the food chain trying to flesh out teams and subs week to week.

As is not unusual within the GAA, the latest event tends to be accepted as the norm and there is a mad reaction to CE's success. Take a step back and look at the 99% over the duration of all of this.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I really don't think that's an issue. If a club has 20 - 24 players to play in the Junior league I don't see a lot of difference really. A seconds team will probably find it harder to find coaches, somewhere to train and support generally if clubs are investing in a senior team.

The likelihood is that the seconds team will be part of a much larger group in terms of numbers. Clubs with two teams are bound to have 60+ players to pick from. The players from a second team will be playing with and against much better players than they normally would during the league, inside Club training. The support they receive in terms of coaching, strength and conditioning, fitness, diet etc, is likely to be far superior to their Junior equivalent.

As is not unusual within the GAA, the latest event tends to be accepted as the norm and there is a mad reaction to CE's success. Take a step back and look at the 99% over the duration of all of this.

This has nothing to do with CE's success, and has nothing to do with the norm. This is an unprecedented situation of 7/8/9 seconds teams now playing Junior football. Clubs are now putting a second team into the All County League because as it stands, 'B' football is close to finishing. 

[DuffleKing]

The first part of this would be miles off. Junior players are not training with club senior teams if that senior team has any type of ambition.

So Cross junior players are training week in and week out with Oisin, Rian, etc.? Not a chance they're anywhere near a senior set up.

[samuel maguire]

The first part of this would be miles off. Junior players are not training with club senior teams if that senior team has any type of ambition.

So Cross junior players are training week in and week out with Oisin, Rian, etc.? Not a chance they're anywhere near a senior set up.

Maybe not every single member of the seconds team but i would be fairly confident in saying that there would be a lot dipping in and out from the firsts teams.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The first part of this would be miles off. Junior players are not training with club senior teams if that senior team has any type of ambition.

So Cross junior players are training week in and week out with Oisin, Rian, etc.? Not a chance they're anywhere near a senior set up.

I referred to a likelihood, as there will be nothing definitive about this. It would be my belief that for the most part, these players will be mixing with Senior players. Throwing in the O'Neills is merely an attempt to take the conversation down a rabbit hole.

I note you chose not to follow up your assertion about the influence of CE's success on this discussion.

[Ethan Tremblay]

The first part of this would be miles off. Junior players are not training with club senior teams if that senior team has any type of ambition.

So Cross junior players are training week in and week out with Oisin, Rian, etc.? Not a chance they're anywhere near a senior set up.

Agree with this. There are players that'll inhibit senior team training/preparation, and wouldn't be asked to attend.

Most senior teams train 2 nights a week at least, some players opting in for a junior team wouldn't be prepared to do that either

[Armagh18]

The first part of this would be miles off. Junior players are not training with club senior teams if that senior team has any type of ambition.

So Cross junior players are training week in and week out with Oisin, Rian, etc.? Not a chance they're anywhere near a senior set up.

Agree with this. There are players that'll inhibit senior team training/preparation, and wouldn't be asked to attend.

Most senior teams train 2 nights a week at least, some players opting in for a junior team wouldn't be prepared to do that either

I'd say any junior team with any sort of ambition train twice a week would they not?

[SaffronSports]

I think a lot of it should come down to grading as in my experience big clubs abuse it. I managed a small u14 team last season and 3 times we played "2nd" teams on a night that the firsts weren't playing...

[Mick Bustin]

My club is one of the ones considering entering a Junior team (or at least were - I am now unsure it will happen.)

We have a lot of youth coming through and with more to come in the next few years but realistically the majority of them won't see much game time for the senior team, not any time soon.

So the current prospect for a talented 18/19/20 year old with our club is to slog it out training with the seniors but with little to no chance of serious game time.

We played about four meaningful games at reserve level this year. The other games didn't really test our players, and one or two ended in cricket scores. There were a couple of DNFs added into the mix.

From our perspective, we aren't looking to walk to a junior championship or an easy league title. I don't even think we'd have the players to compete for it. All we want is to expose players to regular, consistent, competitive football instead of the lottery of reserve football. We lost two or three really good young players to soccer last year and I have no doubt that if we had ran a Junior team last year we would have kept them on board.

I understand that junior clubs have genuine concerns but it is still disappointing how the clubs voted last week. Senior clubs shouldn't be penalised for having the resources and ambition to enter a second team in the league structure.