1981 remembered

[glens abu]

Can I ask a serious question - I was 1 in 1981 and obv don't remember the hunger strikes and their impact. I don't really remember the tyranny of Margaret Thatcher. My question is really what the legacy of the hunger strikers has been for someone like me? Why should I call them heroes if I consider myself Irish? Because when I think of what makes me feel Irish, the hunger strikers never ever feature in my thoughts, but they are obviously held in high esteem by many.
I have incredible sympathy for their plight and the inhumanity of it by the way, but it would never motivate me to attend a commemoration event.

your post is exactly what the Hunger strikers and those that fought to break the tyranny and terror regieme wanted for your generation.
The oppression and systematic repression of the nationalist/Irish people in the north gave rise to the fight back. The civil rights marches and bloody sunday showed what the establishment and their unionist/loyalist peoples view of what our second class citizen place should be.
Nothing would have changed otherwise. That the fight back caused our plight to be globally observed which cracked the regieme and the hunger strikes brought the fight onto a higher ground - that was one of political engagement. Before then, sure the nationalist/Republicans were stopped every which way in the north.
this was the beginning of the end for that sectarian run state.
things are so much better now , that the younger generation dont even know what had went on before them.
that was the goal of at least two hunger strikers that I knew.

very good Lynchboy

[glens abu]

They died, unknowingly, to further the cause and raise the profile of Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams. Simple.

Away and make a few petrol bombs and fight the Brits

[Nally Stand]

As even the Belfast Telegraph states, "no independent evidence has emerged to support O'Rawe's suggestion that the IRA leadership deliberately prolonged the hunger strike for political advantage for the movement outside. O'Rawe's cell-mate does not believe that hunger strikers were allowed to die in order to maximise electoral support".

[lynchbhoy]

As even the Belfast Telegraph states, "no independent evidence has emerged to support O'Rawe's suggestion that the IRA leadership deliberately prolonged the hunger strike for political advantage for the movement outside. O'Rawe's cell-mate does not believe that hunger strikers were allowed to die in order to maximise electoral support".

o'rawe was a attention seeking fecker wanting to make a few quid for himself.
he was a nobody in 1981 no one from inside at that time ever said to me that he was an official anything let lone a spokesperson for the prisoners.
the fmailies were in drect contact with mountain climber and british and Irish Gov's and also the various human rights and EU courts groups etc.
if there was an 'offer' this woul dhave been known.
the 'offer' there was wasnt worth a sihte and the hunger strikers themselves told their familes that this was not even close to a decent offer so they were to continue.
Only around/after the death of Mickey Devine did any serious offer come about but the 5 demands were to be met, but the HS HAD to be called off first for the british gov to save some face to appease the unionist/loyalist groups.

[Nally Stand]

Exactly. And you will always get the trouts who would just love to believe the O'Rawe types.

[Rois]

Thanks for the replies.  Lynchbhoy, yours in particular makes a lot of sense.

[sheamy]

Can I ask a serious question - I was 1 in 1981 and obv don't remember the hunger strikes and their impact. I don't really remember the tyranny of Margaret Thatcher. My question is really what the legacy of the hunger strikers has been for someone like me? Why should I call them heroes if I consider myself Irish? Because when I think of what makes me feel Irish, the hunger strikers never ever feature in my thoughts, but they are obviously held in high esteem by many.
I have incredible sympathy for their plight and the inhumanity of it by the way, but it would never motivate me to attend a commemoration event.

I think the sheer fact that you don't need to remember them says all you need to know about what they achieved. It was never meant to be popular and by definition could never be. I also don't think you need to attend a commemoration event to remember or respect  them. I believe it is the absolute bedrock of the current situation in the north and will prove in time to be one of the most significant events in all of Irish history. It showed what 'so-called' ordinary men could achieve by sheer refusal to be criminalised or dominated, and that the human spirit can never be completely broken. I don't think anyone needs to be or have been an IRA supporter to understand or appreciate that. It could never have been summed up better than with 'Revenge will be the laughter of our children'.

Bobby Sands himself penned the following

The Rhythm Of Time

There's an inner thing in every man,
Do you know this thing my friend?
It has withstood the blows of a million years,
And will do so to the end.

It was born when time did not exist,
And it grew up out of life,
It cut down evil's strangling vines,
Like a slashing searing knife.

It lit fires when fires were not,
And burnt the mind of man,
Tempering leandened hearts to steel,
From the time that time began.

It wept by the waters of Babylon,
And when all men were a loss,
It screeched in writhing agony,
And it hung bleeding from the Cross.

It died in Rome by lion and sword,
And in defiant cruel array,
When the deathly word was 'Spartacus'
Along with Appian Way.

It marched with Wat the Tyler's poor,
And frightened lord and king,
And it was emblazoned in their deathly stare,
As e'er a living thing.

It smiled in holy innocence,
Before conquistadors of old,
So meek and tame and unaware,
Of the deathly power of gold.

It burst forth through pitiful Paris streets,
And stormed the old Bastille,
And marched upon the serpent's head,
And crushed it 'neath its heel.

It died in blood on Buffalo Plains,
And starved by moons of rain,
Its heart was buried in Wounded Knee,
But it will come to rise again.

It screamed aloud by Kerry lakes,
As it was knelt upon the ground,
And it died in great defiance,
As they coldly shot it down.

It is found in every light of hope,
It knows no bounds nor space
It has risen in red and black and white,
It is there in every race.

It lies in the hearts of heroes dead,
It screams in tyrants' eyes,
It has reached the peak of mountains high,
It comes searing 'cross the skies.

It lights the dark of this prison cell,
It thunders forth its might,
It is 'the undauntable thought', my friend,
That thought that says 'I'm right! '

[Nally Stand]

Damien Dempsey put the same poem to music five years ago for the 25th Anniversary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEQmo8sUeo

[sheamy]

Damien Dempsey put the same poem to music five years ago for the 25th Anniversary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEQmo8sUeo

Yeah, have watched him perform it. Legend. If anyone hasn't seen this man or heard of him make it your business to find out!

[Nally Stand]

Just re-wached a bit from the film 'Hunger'. Unbelievable what Michael Fassbender did to his body to play the part of Bobby Sands in his final days. This scene is so graphic it's nearly unwatchable-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2tGKNnH4Os&feature=related

[Myles Na G.]

Still remember where I was when I heard the news that John Lennon had been killed. True hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVp7lkH10Gc

Myles, you mention you always remember where you were when John Lennon was killed. Fair enough. You forgot the date though. It was 1980, not 1981 (oops!). Though as the proud Unionist you are, I'm surprised, but nevertheless happy, to hear you regard John Lennon as a true hero.
Here's another of his songs (with a few lyrics added below):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NvWFQt2fD8
You anglo pigs and scotties
Sent to colonize the north
You wave your bloody Union Jacks
And you know what it's worth!
How dare you hold on to ransom
A people proud and free
Keep ireland for the irish
Put the english back to sea!

Sunday bloody sunday
Bloody sunday's the day!

Yes it's always bloody sunday
In the concentration camps
Keep Falls and roads free forever
From the bloody english hands
Repatriate to britain
All of you who call it home
Leave ireland to the irish
Not for London or for Rome!

Here's a photo you could print and frame of your "true hero" too:

Fair cop on the date. I was in my 1st year at university, 1980-81, and can remember who told me and where I was, but obviously it was later in the academic year than I thought!

What did the hunger strikers achieve?
1. They laid the foundations that enabled SF to go on and become the largest nationalist party, which led to that party entering the parliament they once despised to help the DUP administer British rule in the north eastern part of this island;
2. they ensured for themselves a place in the pantheon of republican heroes for evermore, which some might see as worth sacrificing their life for;
3. er...that's it.

When this island is reunited politically, in 50 or 60 years time, it will be despite the best efforts of physical force Irish republicans not because of them. Fanatics, whether they be suicide bombers or hunger strikers, make poor nation builders.

[lynchbhoy]

you are entitled to your opinion myles.

however I think Rois and people of her generation prove what was 'won'.
This was not coming any other way.
Furthermore, yes sf did benefit out of this, but this was not done for sf's benefit. they didnt really exist a year or so before this.
sdlp were useless and toothless, so a representative body was needed. sdlp's subsequent slide heading for the exit door even today - proves this.

[sheamy]

Myles, your analysis is based on the fact that you assume the hunger strike was about a 32 county republic. It wasn't.

It was specifically about the granting of political status to the republican prisoners and breaking Thatcher's criminalisation policy and the inhumanity of the jails. It succeeded.

Like most of what the provos were about, it was also more to do with defeating the old unionism regime of oppression and domination than running down to sit in good old leinster house where there are more criminals per square yard than were ever in the h-blocks. It also succeeded in that respect.

In doing so it has given future generations in the north the freedom to express and live their culture to the full on an equal basis. There is no going back.

[Myles Na G.]

Myles, your analysis is based on the fact that you assume the hunger strike was about a 32 county republic. It wasn't.

It was specifically about the granting of political status to the republican prisoners and breaking Thatcher's criminalisation policy and the inhumanity of the jails. It succeeded.

Like most of what the provos were about, it was also more to do with defeating the old unionism regime of oppression and domination than running down to sit in good old leinster house where there are more criminals per square yard than were ever in the h-blocks. It also succeeded in that respect.

In doing so it has given future generations in the north the freedom to express and live their culture to the full on an equal basis. There is no going back.

No, I'm assuming that the provos were about a 32 county republic. The hunger strikers were only a small part of what was a 25 year campaign. And if the provos were about 'defeating the old unionism regime of oppression and domination', then they needn't have bothered. Having been shamed into action, the British government had already started initiating change in the early 1970s to sweep away the inequalities brought about by 50 years of 1 party rule. Electoral reform, housing reform (the Housing Executive was set up in 1971), and equality legislation were all in place within two or three years of the troubles starting. Power sharing was on offer after Sunningdale, though it was rejected by the two groups (the provos and the DUP) who run the Assembly today under a system of mandatory coalition, which is just power sharing for people who like big words. The reason the provos rejected it then was because their agenda was all about Brits out and a 32 county Ireland. The reason they accepted it after the Belfast Agreement was because they realised that their 'long war' was not going to achieve its objectives and that a leading role in the administration of the north was as much as they could hope for. Doh!

[dillinger]

lying on urine soaked matresses on the floor, excrement on the walls, waking[/quote]

Don't want to sound heartless, but that is what they decided to do. The British did not do that to them. And i'm one who had met Bobby, though didn't really know him, he was a friend of my brothers once.