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Corrigan it is...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cp8y7195633o

Corrigan Park set to stage Antrim v Armagh Ulster tie

It's not a take.

It's a grounding in reality.

The competition committee have rules in place for venues that outrank the rules for home and away draws.

These rules are in place to ensure the competition can fulfil its remit as the premier GAA tournament in Ulster.

It's the draw of these tournaments that provides the financial flex to provide mileage, meals and medical care for players.

Antrim's players and management have gone to war carrying buckets and spades. It's a f**king nonsense.

What is the written criteria?  Is there a minimum capacity required or other logistical considerations?

If signed up to a competition then I assume signed up to that written criteria.

Be interesting to see it.

And should remove any argument.

Or we could just make sh!t up and debate that.

Yes, absolutely! If there is specific criteria in black and white then that would make sense.

Why did it take them so long to flag this up? Surely with this criteria a neutral venue for Antrims "home" game would have been set even before the draw was made?

I think I'm right in saying Corrigan Park as had capacity crowds in recent years with the visits of Cork and Kilkenny.
The requirements were not mentioned much then and a great day out was had by the children of Antrim watching their heroes on their own turf.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the draw was made with the capacity known. The Ulster council subsequently sold season tickets to Armagh knowing they couldn't fit everyone into Corrigan

Armagh couldn't have been sold less season tickets than was available to other counties on the basis that they had been drawn to play at Corrigan Park, as some ridiculous suggestions have been made. And now that those tickets have been sold, the Ulster Council are in a position where they feel they MUST honour them. And to do so, as well as the other tickets which need to be facilitated, the safe capacity of the ground is exceeded.

I honestly feel this is a very simple concept, especially with the GAA rulebook backing it up.

Surely you can see that a Home/Away draw is a very simple concept as well??

Is there a T&C on the season ticket that would allow them to "ration" tickets to season ticket holders?? For example, even if this situation isn't covered, can they change the T&C's without any notice?

The term is In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

I doubt the GAA would want to try and rely on this though as it's open to interpretation particularly as the capacity of the ground was known before season tickets were sold.

Thanks again David.

There's a rule/clause then that potentially covers both scenarios (rule in relation to venue change and the above on the season ticket)

This is a problem entirely of the Ulster Council's making. I'd be of the view that the correct thing is to preserve the integrity of the draw and keep it at Corrigan (ie. Antrim home draw stands)

I agree but I feel the potential costs to the association of not moving the game will win out.

The decision seems to be either play it at Corrigan, some people get to watch in the stadium and a lot of others will complain.

Or, fix it for somewhere else and it might not happen at all. Assuming Antrim are going to stand firm.

It really is a tough one. If you were to look at this in the context of another sport (say an FA cup game in England, as an example), the notion of removing home advantage from a lower league team to facilitate a premier league team's supporters just isn't right

Armagh couldn't have been sold less season tickets than was available to other counties on the basis that they had been drawn to play at Corrigan Park, as some ridiculous suggestions have been made. And now that those tickets have been sold, the Ulster Council are in a position where they feel they MUST honour them. And to do so, as well as the other tickets which need to be facilitated, the safe capacity of the ground is exceeded.

I honestly feel this is a very simple concept, especially with the GAA rulebook backing it up.

Surely you can see that a Home/Away draw is a very simple concept as well??

Is there a T&C on the season ticket that would allow them to "ration" tickets to season ticket holders?? For example, even if this situation isn't covered, can they change the T&C's without any notice?

The term is In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

I doubt the GAA would want to try and rely on this though as it's open to interpretation particularly as the capacity of the ground was known before season tickets were sold.

Thanks again David.

There's a rule/clause then that potentially covers both scenarios (rule in relation to venue change and the above on the season ticket)

This is a problem entirely of the Ulster Council's making. I'd be of the view that the correct thing is to preserve the integrity of the draw and keep it at Corrigan (ie. Antrim home draw stands)

Armagh couldn't have been sold less season tickets than was available to other counties on the basis that they had been drawn to play at Corrigan Park, as some ridiculous suggestions have been made. And now that those tickets have been sold, the Ulster Council are in a position where they feel they MUST honour them. And to do so, as well as the other tickets which need to be facilitated, the safe capacity of the ground is exceeded.

I honestly feel this is a very simple concept, especially with the GAA rulebook backing it up.

Surely you can see that a Home/Away draw is a very simple concept as well??

Is there a T&C on the season ticket that would allow them to "ration" tickets to season ticket holders?? For example, even if this situation isn't covered, can they change the T&C's without any notice?

I'm guessing their argument will be that the H&S issue has been created by the overselling of tickets. Games are hosted in Corrigan Park regularly, no H&S issue when the capacity isn't exceeded.

That's not their fault, they didn't sell the tickets.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. I don't like the idea of them being moved from their home venue because of a situation not of their making.

Draw was early October. Season tickets were late October. About a 2.5 week difference.

This is why I imagine the GAA may be scared of a claim for fraudulent misselling.

Thanks David. So any H&S issues would've been avoided had all the knowledge to hand been considered (ie. "we can only sell a small number of Armagh season tickets because one of the venues they're playing in is quite small").

They've opted to sell more tickets than the already known home venue can hold. That's nothing to do with H&S and you'd have to be naive to think they didn't consider that at the time. I'd guess they thought they could get Antrim to rollover

No, they established a policy that grounds would be reviewed for suitability and sold tickets on that basis. Some Antrim players are attempting to overthrow the decision of the association in that regard. The principle of grounds having to be suitable existed before either draw was made or the tickets were sold.

Do you have the actual text of the rule to hand? I saw it somewhere earlier but can't remember where

I can't see the rule but I see this from a news article. The H&S issue is a self made one due to too many tickets being sold after the venue was known. Had they sold fewer tickets to stay within the capacity of the venue (which they knew) then there's no issue.

That's nothing to do with Antrim.

However, in a statement to RTÉ Sport, Ulster GAA said Corrigan Park's capacity does not meet the "required health and safety standard" to stage the match and that discussions remain ongoing with Antrim GAA.

"Home venues for senior inter-county championship games are subject to the approval of the relevant CCC, and they must be in compliance with health and safety standards," a spokesperson for Ulster GAA said.

"Corrigan Park has a certified capacity of 4,000. The minimum number of tickets required to accommodate this fixture (including players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc) will exceed the venue capacity. Therefore, Corrigan Park does not meet the required health and safety standard to accommodate this fixture.

Draw was early October. Season tickets were late October. About a 2.5 week difference.

This is why I imagine the GAA may be scared of a claim for fraudulent misselling.

Thanks David. So any H&S issues would've been avoided had all the knowledge to hand been considered (ie. "we can only sell a small number of Armagh season tickets because one of the venues they're playing in is quite small").

They've opted to sell more tickets than the already known home venue can hold. That's nothing to do with H&S and you'd have to be naive to think they didn't consider that at the time. I'd guess they thought they could get Antrim to rollover

No, they established a policy that grounds would be reviewed for suitability and sold tickets on that basis. Some Antrim players are attempting to overthrow the decision of the association in that regard. The principle of grounds having to be suitable existed before either draw was made or the tickets were sold.

Do you have the actual text of the rule to hand? I saw it somewhere earlier but can't remember where

Draw was early October. Season tickets were late October. About a 2.5 week difference.

This is why I imagine the GAA may be scared of a claim for fraudulent misselling.

Thanks David. So any H&S issues would've been avoided had all the knowledge to hand been considered (ie. "we can only sell a small number of Armagh season tickets because one of the venues they're playing in is quite small").

They've opted to sell more tickets than the already known home venue can hold. That's nothing to do with H&S and you'd have to be naive to think they didn't consider that at the time. I'd guess they thought they could get Antrim to rollover

What came first, draw made with Antrim at home or Armagh season tickets sold??

If the draw was made first then selling that many season tickets when the capacity of Antrim's home ground was known shouldn't have happened (ie. they've oversold on the number of seats available). I know that's short sighted and in reality it wouldn't happen like that, but the Antrim game should've been excluded from the season ticket or some alternative arrangement put in place.

Principle matters. Hold your ground Antrim

Armagh had the same opportunity to buy season tickets as every other county, the season ticket scheme is not the problem here. The draw was made on the basis of a suitability assessment of the ground, which is the same for all counties in Ireland. Antrim are free to nominate any ground of proper size for this game. I'll bet you that Antrim themselves do not allow clubs nominate grounds that the county board does not think suitable.

The Ulster Council are saying the issue is H&S. They could've restricted access beforehand though by either selling less tickets (H&S then wouldn't be a factor) or by putting a restriction on this game for season ticket holders. They decided not to do that though.

The issue is there's been too many tickets sold, and that was presumably done after the draw when they knew the capacity of Corrigan. They've oversold for this game.

They could be honest and say this is about money. But they won't. They'll hide behind H&S

I'll caveat what I'm about to say by saying I'm with Antrim on this one but I can see season ticket holders point of view as well.

A season ticket was €150. It entitled the purchaser to the following.

7 league matches which would have cost €140

A ticket to the club final and/or league final should your county make it.

A right to buy tickets to every championship game featuring your county except the All Ireland final

Unless

You purchased 6 other championship tickets throughout your counties championship run.

So the season ticket was pretty poor value unless you expected to be at at least every league game.

The advantage though of getting it though was the right to purchase tickets to every championship game.  If that's done away with on the basis that Corrigan has a very limited capacity and that others have to get priority then it fundamentally undermines the season ticket. Not just for Armagh and Antrim fans but also for other counties season ticket holders who could lose the season ticket perks they have already paid for because the package wasn't thought through.

So whilst I would like the game to go ahead at Corrigan I think it's unlikely to do so. I can see the position of season ticket holders though and I imagine the GAA will be rightly concerned at the potential for legal problems should the game not be moved. I think it's time for a serious rethink though of season tickets in order to protect the integrity of competitions going forward.

What came first, draw made with Antrim at home or Armagh season tickets sold??

If the draw was made first then selling that many season tickets when the capacity of Antrim's home ground was known shouldn't have happened (ie. they've oversold on the number of seats available). I know that's short sighted and in reality it wouldn't happen like that, but the Antrim game should've been excluded from the season ticket or some alternative arrangement put in place.

Principle matters. Hold your ground Antrim

Bit of a strange one to be posting up at this time of year, but we are in our final year with all the kids still believing so wanted to try and book a good one for the last time. We usually try and book away for the night and make a weekend of it, We've done a fair few. Mostly around NI but also centre parks.
Just wondering if anyone could recommend one plus a nice family hotel to stay at. Happy to travel but ideally 2-3 hrs from Tyrone. Someone mentioned Palmerstown?

Have been to

Santa's cottage newry
Donegal Lapland
Innisowen gateway hotel
Todd's leap, Ballygawley
Centre parks
Jackson's hotel
Oakfield park

Any good ones down south?

Glenarm Castle do a good one

He's been lifted...

https://twitter.com/PoliceServiceNI/status/1664403817683730432?t=rlsOu171E8CGQQBYZGBeFA&s=19

Genuine enough it seems...

https://twitter.com/julianoneill/status/1664307517608935448?t=FZvCnsDUSaPOiusR-istZg&s=19

Was it Fonacab or Value Cabs the taxi driver that released the video footage of the couple in his car worked for?

Another taxi driver in Belfast in a bit of bother now

https://twitter.com/mandudep/status/1664252373475160064?t=rk_uF5rL9VHaBelRZ9UO7A&s=19