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Here are the groups for the competition , some counties had a few teams, that Kildare team that lost to Armagh was the second team

Celtic Challenge Group 1
West Cork   
Cork White   
limerick
Clare

Celtic Challenge Group 2
Cork Red
East Cork
Waterford
Clare   
Wexford

Celtic Challenge Group 3
Kilkenny   
Tipperary Blue   
Antrim   
Down
   
Celtic Challenge Group 4
Galway
Tipperary Gold
Dublin
Derry

Celtic Challenge Group 5
Laois   
Offaly   
Wicklow   
Kerry   

Celtic Challenge Group 6
Westmeath
Meath   
Armagh   
Kildare   

Celtic Challenge Group 7
Roscommon   
Mayo   
Donegal   
Sligo   

Celtic Challenge Group 8
Tyrone   
Kildare   
Meath   
Derry   
Carlow

Celtic Challenge Group 9
Longford   
Fermanagh
Cavan
Louth
Monaghan
Leitrim   

We were group 5 this year , with Offaly, wicklow and Kerry. We played one of the Kildare teams, Roscommon and then Meath.

that was tough watch yesterday, while we probably never looked like winning at least for the majority of the first half we had somehow stayed in the game and got a bit of luck when they hit the crossbar. the burst they made just before half time killed off any notion that we had a chance and it was further emphasised by the complete collapse just after half time. the warning signs were probably there in the first half as the their pace and movement were causing us all sorts of problems especially in tracking their runners. Their half back line which ended up scoring 1-14 from play just had too much speed and power for the multitude of players we deployed on them. it was probably not helped by a number of factors, the passiveness of our defending (we allowed them on the inside shoulder so many times), a number of our players getting caught repeatedly flat footed or allowing the runner to go onto their strong foot for a shot time and time again and clearly at least two players carrying injuries.

I don't know whether Westmeath copped this lack of mobility but they "hammered the hammer" and ploughed up the wings, especially the terrace side in both halves where they seemed to have oceans of space. In that regard I thought the management made some obvious mistakes, not man marking McCartan in the first half when he was handling so much ball and scoring at will and secondly not rectifying a positional change after half time which lead to the half back scoring 1-3 from play. the player was physically not able to stay with the pace of the Westmeath back. The score line could have been so much worse with the six point turn around goal at the end and the wing back fisting the ball over the bar when it was easier to score. Both teams then emptied the bench and the game played out as a challenge match with Westmeath recording one of their biggest wins ever against us.

So where do we go now, hopefully there will be a reflection on the year, the underage is not actually promising and there doesn't appear to be a lot of players at club level with their hands up for inclusion. Mcnulty has done a good job with all the players not available and the weakness of the panel. he has managed it well but a lot of it is round pegs in square holes and when it goes wrong or we come up against a small bit of quality like yesterday and the kildare match we are in serious bother. He has put a big effort in and i wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

A further issue towards the development of players is the complete lack of players involved in college teams. It was very noticeable this year out of the ten Sigerson squads that we essentially had two players, Roche (a mature student) and Heffernan at DCU. Even at the higher levels of freshers football we have very few players. People might have a different view of college football but it is an excellent level for players to improve. to see the increased number of players from similar counties like ourselves like Monaghan, Roscommon, Louth, Kildare, Offaly, Cavan and Meath recently making the squads is definitely reflected in their progression. Meath forming a GAA partnership with Maynooth University sports department which shows great forward thinking especially as the college is expanding its sports science programme and planning to build a massive facility there. A number of Meath players are also on sports scholarships there. Schools improving is only one small part , it really needs a better approach. 

it was poor really poor, perfect setting , huge crowd and then a complete non event of a game. no niggle or anything to get things going. I was hoping we would put in a performance but Kildare were miles ahead of us in terms of fitness, size and pace. they really bullied us especially in the forwards and kick outs in the first half were like kicking a ball against a wall. the game was over quickly after their very fast start and just petered out, you could say harshly it was played in relevant silence and the crowd drifted off before the end. we ran the bench with not much improvement. probably a bleak summary but Kildare are organised this year and are probably too strong for this division and for us in our current state with so many players unavailable. they have big games coming up against Clare and Offaly which probably will decide the division and give them a better idea where they are at but Flanagan has them going well. they do foul a bit but more cutely further up the field and did kick a lot of scoreable chances wide,(thankfully).

On the team itself, they blitzed us early enough with a fast start, the defence were under massive pressure. They scored with a minute of the start with a very Dublin like back door cut, something they repeated in the first minute of the second half and looked for it on numerous times during the game. in fairness we turned them over a few times in contact in defence but had no out ball and ended playing some hairy hand passing movements at times. Simon Fingelton's interventions saved us from a few goals but we just seemed to be very passive at times when they were shooting.

the kick outs were a massive problem, it was either Damon or nobody, they physically dominated us in this area. hopefully we wont meet someone again as big as Feely but high hanging kick outs into a wind were clearly to their advantage . it was noticeable that there half backs , Hyland in particular purposely ran ahead of the kick out into our half before it reached centre field assuming they were going to break it back into that area. we went short on a few but many were near the side line with the arc and left our defenders in a trap situation and easily pressed. one to Swayne didn't get outside the arc and ended with a handy free for them. the forwards unfortunately couldn't get separation from their defenders who were very tight. a mixture of lack of pace and physicality at times.  Mark Barry in particular was marshalled well legally or otherwise and had one of his quieter games. Brian Byrne did a portion of time at full forward for reasons I still don't understand as we gained nothing from it.   

I still think we need another win or even a draw to be safe, the injuries to benny Carroll and James Kelly will weaken a light enough panel if they are for a long period of time. A lot for the management to ponder but I don't think we will meet a team as strong as Kildare in the remaining fixtures.

Offaly looked well ahead us in terms of attacking shape, fitness and pace especially in their forward line. not surprising with Mickey Harte involved over there as he always took the league very serious plus they have a lot of players involved in the Sigerson. it could be a very tough league for us, the next round will probably give a better indication of where we will be at, defeat to Leitrim and we are in serious bother.

on the game itself the our goalkeeper coming forward could develop into a major issue. obviously he is been brought forward to kick two pointers but he is not the quickness and definitely when the ball is either turned over or fails to go dead from a shot he is struggling. last year with most teams operating a blanket defence there were never forwards too far up to cause these issues for him but with the new rules and the three forwards and the solo and go its risky.

Two very tough games today , hoping for a result in either . Both teams could be slightly undercooked.

very light on scoring forwards as many of the players i would associate as being either midfielders or play makers. looking at the extended panel that was published it clearly shows the amount of players not available. this league could be extremely difficult. 

Think this is the best place to Post this

Have been thinking about Clare since Sunday

A relatively split Dual County

As of 2023 Census
Laois Population 91,657
Clare Population 127,938, so yes an extra 36k people, not huge on the grand scale

Has the All Ireland wins of 95 and 97, 2013 embedded such a hurling culture to drive underage success /standards, Obviously any Senior Success huge for any County's development but must be driven and organised too.

What structures are in place in relation to Hurling Boards & Competitions,

Club Clare / Laois Gaels Comparisons

Underage Structures , Academies, Competitions

Secondary Schools hurling, again huge culture of it in Clare,

There is nothing near a comparable competitive infrastructure in place or supports to drive hurling here,
Could we try to at least to imitate best practices in relation to all of the above by taking the best ideas, for hurling (& football),

Or without the initial success have we not the interest or enough of people willing to do so,

This is not a post designed to slag off anyone, just genuinely interested in the detail of how its done in Clare and what could we do to better ourselves here

the secondary schools but definitely the amount of players who play fitzgibbon at a high level has helped them

I certainly wouldn't be making predictions on the basis of Portlaoise hammering Ballylinan.

definitely, wait till after the emo match but its good to see them kicking the ball more than previous years. possibly still lacking a scoring forward

very disappointing yesterday, while Down were strong favourites it just felt that we never released the handbrake and played very conservative nearly to our detriment. After last years game and Down's higher league standing it was understandable that we were going to be defensive to establish a platform to be in the game but it only appeared near the end with a few long balls that there was game that could have been won, even if it was a smash and grab. Lacey's goal from the keepers mistake and later Barry's strike put a bit of a shine on what was an awful offensive performance in particular. I accept that McNulty's heavy defensive style in fairness got us to the final and also may have been handicapped yesterday by not having the forwards especially pacey, hard running forwards that would show for the ball to stretch Down. It would lead you to wonder how the approach or even some of the personnel were not changed when it was obvious we were playing so deep and effectively having no forwards up the field to score. Evan's point in the 15 minute was the last point from play any of the eight forward players we used yesterday scored and Heffernan's point just after the 37th minute was the last point from paly any Laois player scored. The two forward changes came in the 56th and 65th minute and to me were too late. Eight scores in 70 plus minutes was never going to win this game.     

next year will be interesting, I would imagine that the plan will be to build on the foundations of this year and stay in Division 3, avoid relegation and have a better run in Leinster depending on the draw and go for the Tailteann again. The evolving of the game plan will depend of what the panel looks like and whether we can get some of the absent players back but most importantly try find pacey forwards.

It's been encouraging to see good young players coming into the team over the last few years. Kelly, both Dempseys, Fingleton, Lacey, Heffernan, Larkin, Burke, Swayne, Fitzpatrick, Murphy and Dunne have been a breath of fresh air.

I wonder is there any chance that some of this year's exiles might return for next year's campaign. Would be great to see some of Greene, O'Sullivan, Piggott, Collins etc back.

With some of the exiles back, consolidation of our place in Div. 3 might be possible.

It's really forwards and midfielders we need especially a scoring midfielder if we are to avoid the yo-yo effect in the league especially. We are still only hitting around 12-13 scores on average and getting goals has been huge plus this year. 

hard to watch that back again, should had really won it. I thought at the game with 15 minutes to go Offaly were looking tired and we were going to push on and win it especially as we had a lot of our finishers on the field. For whatever reasons we kept making dreadful errors and sloppy mistakes which was a feature throughout the game and Offaly punished us. Even more of a surprise that it was our more experienced players that were doing it. There were a few very strange managerial and  tactical decisions, were we too cautious ? the conceding of the puckout especially when they were struggling for an out ball near the end allowing them to work it through the lines. Kiely there centre back is a noted puc fada champion, how did they think standing off him wasn't going to be a problem, could they have switched Ryan Mullaney onto Duignan or tried someone else as the free man? maybe been a bit more ruthless with the subs introduced into the forwards, some players just weren't going well. doesn't matter now but it was a glorious chance to get one finally over Offaly in Croke Park.

I attended the game as I live not that far away and knew a person involved with mayo. I have never seen this group before and in fairness they got a lovely pitch in abbotstown to play on and it was contested like a final. The final wasn't bad and again i am only going on seeing this level only but there were a lot of very good scores. Mayo probably will feel they could have won it. Certainly in the first half when they had the benefit of the wind they caused Laois a lot of problems, the two man inside forward line scored I think 2-6 from play in the game were very dangerous. The full forward got man of the match afterwards in fairness he got four great points from play. In the second half Laois really squeezed the puckouts and won a lot of turnover ball around the middle and just got over the line. No- one really jumped out but they got the win in the end which will hopefully stand to them in the future.

As this is seen as a development tournament I don't really know the eligibility grounds for teams but I did know that Mayo had players from 15 to 17 years old on board and they had come through their group beating a Westmeath, Sligo, Donegal, Kerry and Roscommon to reach the final. From the programme Laois lost to Meath, beat Armagh and a Kildare team as they had two in the competition in the group stages. They beat Kildare again in the quarter finals, again possibly another Kildare side before Meath in the semi final. The tournament which had nine groups effectively was two sets of four groups with the losers in each group going into other cups etc. 1-4 seemed to be stronger teams and 4-8 the smaller counties and then one large group for the weaker counties. Looking at the groups they worked out as follows,

Division 1 - Clare, Limerick, Galway, West Cork
Division 2 - Tipperary Blue, Antrim, East Cork, Kilkenny Black
Division 3 - Down, Cork City, Wexford, Tipperary Gold
Division 4- Dublin, Derry, North Cork, Waterford

the second batch of four counties

Division 5 - Mayo, Westmeath, Sligo, Donegal
Division 6 - Carlow, Kerry, Roscommon, Wicklow
Division 7 - Tyrone, Offaly, Kildare Lilywhites
Division 8 - Kildare, Armagh, Meath and Laois

Division 9 - Monaghan, Leitrim, Longford, Fermanagh, Louth, Cavan

The finals ended up

Tipperary Blue v Kilkenny Black
East Cork v Dublin
Mayo v Laois
Tyrone v Sligo
Louth v Monaghan
Leitrim v Fermanagh

i don't know what level this group are at or have been at through their development but it would appear that they are at probably the third level of teams at present. someone else here might have better knowledge on the matter.

The u20's weren't bad tonight , once they got on top of the Kildare puck out near the end of the first half they didn't look like they would be beaten. They also had the luxury of missing a penalty. The had a strong start to the second half with two goals but took the foot off for a while and things could have tightened up if Kildare hadn't shot as many wides I. Their purple patch.