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This narrative about the 6th place team seems to go back to trying to keep everyone in championship for as long as possible and giving teams a chance where they had a chance to earn it but haven't.

Does anyone really believe the GAA will go back to the drawingboard and start again if changes aren't voted through this weekend? The provincal councils certainly don't think there's any need. The only slight adjustment they'd make is to make the provincial championships round robin based so there are more games, more hammerings and more money for themselves.

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1450109412463497223

Michael Reynolds, Leinster GAA Secretary showing what he thinks of the players views here.

Heard him on Newstalk there now.

He was pretty adamant that a Leinster Championship without All Ireland progression would be meaningless.

Surely he shouldn't need explained the Catch 22 here i.e. if the competition is meaningless in its own right, then why fight so hard for its retention ?

Again I make the comparison between the provincial championships and American football's divisional championships.

If the divisional championships were taken out of the NFL season proper and played off as a 3 or a 6 game round robin in pre-season, would they matter?

The NFL actually show how a provincial system could work compared to the current shit show. League based to tournament with the best teams going forward into the knock out stages.

Even in the league games fixtures are based on the previous years performance so the worst performing teams get to play against each other and the best test get the tougher fixtures. Yet another sport showing that matching teams of similar ability against each other is entertaining and people will go to watch.

It's farcical that the secretary of Leinster GAA thinks keeping the current system is a good idea. I wonder how many games he goes to every year?

Clearly it all comes down to how much money he thinks Leinster council will get and how important his roll will be when deciding on what's best for the future

If you want a league based championship and believe that the NFL know how to run one, wouldn't you be calling for all teams to be classed on an equal footing?

ie. 4 groups of 8 based on a random open draw?

Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone could end up in the same group, playing for only two qualification spots.

Absolutely I want a champions league based tournament. Best teams will qualify for the knock out stages if it's based on a league format and teams get to improve by playing regularly against similarly matched opponents.

You can still introduce seeding so teams who win their provinces are kept apart in separate groups. That way the provincial championship could retain some importance before the actual championship starts.

Option B isn't perfect but it's a step in the right direction. Top teams compete for Sam and the weaker teams have their own competition. It's being introduced on a trial basis and there's no reason it can't be further amended and improved in future. That's what other sports do. They evolve and move with the times. The people in charge look for ways to improve the game through rule changes or changes to the competition structure.

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1450109412463497223

Michael Reynolds, Leinster GAA Secretary showing what he thinks of the players views here.

Heard him on Newstalk there now.

He was pretty adamant that a Leinster Championship without All Ireland progression would be meaningless.

Surely he shouldn't need explained the Catch 22 here i.e. if the competition is meaningless in its own right, then why fight so hard for its retention ?

Again I make the comparison between the provincial championships and American football's divisional championships.

If the divisional championships were taken out of the NFL season proper and played off as a 3 or a 6 game round robin in pre-season, would they matter?

The NFL actually show how a provincial system could work compared to the current shit show. League based to tournament with the best teams going forward into the knock out stages.

Even in the league games fixtures are based on the previous years performance so the worst performing teams get to play against each other and the best test get the tougher fixtures. Yet another sport showing that matching teams of similar ability against each other is entertaining and people will go to watch.

It's farcical that the secretary of Leinster GAA thinks keeping the current system is a good idea. I wonder how many games he goes to every year?

Clearly it all comes down to how much money he thinks Leinster council will get and how important his roll will be when deciding on what's best for the future

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1450109412463497223

Michael Reynolds, Leinster GAA Secretary showing what he thinks of the players views here.

That's such a depressing interview. Players should shut up and realize people like him and others on the provincial councils know better than they do. Scary thing is alot of the people on the provincial councils probably agree with him

Normally this would lead to resignations at board level after such a resounding and humiliating defeat for them, but GAA county board members are a different breed and I doubt you'll see any of them step down

I think it's a cracking jersey tonight and crest.

It's a throwback to the first ever jersey worn by Ireland in 1921. The crest is the same as what it was in 1921 as well

I have to say I thought it was a nice jersey as well

Wexford are a div 4 side. That's not due to funding or coaching, but a lack of talent. Under the current system they have no chance of winning a Leinster title never mind Sam. The only way they'll improve is playing more games against teams of a similar standard in the summer months rather than on bogs in Jan/Feb. The league is a positive for teams like Wexford as they get to play every week against a team of similar standard so they learn what their strengths and weaknesses are.

They could play the likes of the dubs every week for a year and learn nothing. Dublin are so far ahead of them they're not competing with them, they're just playing negative football to keep the scorelines respectful and that helps no one



However under plan B they'll be up against sides of similar standards so they have something to aim for come the championship in the summer rather than a beating in Leinster and then a pointless qualifier.

Why do you think the players from counties like Longford & Clare have come out in support of plan B?

They're the one's making the sacrifices training and if they are calling for Plan B who are we to criticize them?

Why is Sid Wexford as reason to keep the current system? As someone who's parents live in Wexford they are the perfect example not to keep the current system.

Wexford football was successful not because of the competition structures, but because they lucked out with once in a generation talent in Matty Forde and a few other decent players.

Currently they're in Div 4 and no matter what coaching and money you throw at them the players aren't there and their only chance of progression is Plan B and playing games against teams of similar standard. Getting battered by the dubs (or another Leinster county) will do nothing for Wexford football next summer

Counties like Carlow, Longford and Louth are usually out of the championship after early on and never get a run of games in the summer. At least with Plan B that could change and I'd expect counties like them to bring large crowds to games.

No matter how much money and/or coaches you throw at these smaller counties they are not going to be challenging for Leinster titles. At least with the Tailtean Cup they have a genuine trophy they can aim for

Listened to GAA hour on this Plan B with Brian McEvoy from Ulster GAA. I'd be no fan of Parkinson and his arguments generally don't vary from his own opinion been right but on this issue, he tried to be balanced.

But McEvoy came across as a completely blinkered parody of what we all envisage GAA officials to be. He used plenty of facts and offered guaranteed outcomes based on his own opinion. I'm sure that he has plenty of experience but his whole argument is based on the provinces been a pathway to championship. That they aren't now solely a pathway was lost on him. He's seen it all and couldn't see why people would go to Ulster matches now or why an ulster final couldn't be a big occasion.

As CEO of the ulster council he should be his job to make it such and to seek out opportunities and to promote these games and make it appealing. Massive opportunities with extra games and a fixed structure of games. As CEO of Ulster he should be dealing with central council and asking them financial outcomes of plan B. Instead he hasn't been told and seems to leave it there. Of course more should be done but certainly think he doesn't want to know the answers so not asking the questions.

Another of his arguments was that the super 8s provided too many dead rubbers in last round of games. Yes but in a 4 team group that's always likely. In a 8 team groups with more places and more outcomes that's going to change - the leagues demostrate that. Parkinson didn't pull him on that.

He came across very poor and stubborn to me. And if this is the CEO of the ulster body than can only say that tradition and money is behind every decision and football is well down the priority.

Tom Parsons of GPA much more clear and better informed where arguing the GPA position and they steps they've take to inform and educate themselves.

I thought McAvoy came across very well.

One point he made which I think is not being dealt with is: what would be the pricing structure be for these league as championship games?

The League as it is only gets the crowds it does because prices are lower than for championship.

If you, say, doubled the prices of tickets, what effect does that have on the crowds? Bearing in mind that seven matches in eight weeks will already be very expensive for people to attend, and that there is and never has been a real culture anywhere in Irish sport of attending paid in games week on week.

How attractive can the new pre-season "provincial championships" be? They'll be played in January, February and March. And they themselves will be largely mismatches.

It beggars belief to me that the same people that are saying the provincial championships as they are now are a dead duck are the same people saying they will be attractive as stand alone pre-season competitions played in winter conditions. There's a fundamental contradiction there.

Ideal marketing opportunity for the GAA. Offer different packages for league games, knock out games or both combined. No reason why individual counties can't work with Croke Park to come up with their own pricing schemes.

One of the reason a new structure has to be brought in is because of provincial mismatches. Better that the provincial mismatches are on earlier in the year in poorer conditions than in the summer months when you can have competitive games between equally matched teams on good pitches in good conditions.

While Plan B has its flaws it's a better format than the current one. It should implemented for a trial period to see how it goes. There's nothing positive to be gained from sticking with the current screwed up system. 

The GAA world didn't end when the new hurling championship structure was implemented and that has proved a success. If it was a player/manager vote it would be a landslide vote, but the individuals who actually attend congress are a different demographic with different agendas and ideas so there's no way of telling how the vote will go

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

Didn't look too meaningless to  Tipp 2020 and Roscommon 2019

The GAA created Frankenstein in Dublin reducing the Leinster champ to a shambles, they need to own it, others shouldn't have to make changes to cover that up

First win in 80 odd years for Tipp. First time in two decades it wasn't Kerry or Cork to win Munster. If anything this proves things have to change. Tipp can still win a Munster title under option B.

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

Tyrone were worthy winners. Shot selection/decision making/skill levels were piss piss poor form Mayo while Tyrone made their chances count.

What did Mayo work on in training all season. The pressure came on today and the Mayo forwards were embarrassingly bad . Didn't want to know and  when pressure came on tonight.

Serious questions need to be asked of Horan and his mangement team. Shambolic is the only way to describe that Mayo performance and once again Aidan O'Shea scores nothing on All Ireland finals day when the pressure osoon

The dynamic between Horan and especially one of his management team younger fella black hair was bad during the match with Horan turning away in near disgust after the other fella had been very strongly putting points (or giving out). They destroy themselves. The thing is curses only work if you believe them and Mayo, in the back of their minds, clearly do believe that 'curse'.

Ridiculous statement about the curse.
I'm of a certain age and for the first forty years of my life the curse didn't exist, it's a modern invention, spurred aging by a headline grabbing media.

The veracity or otherwise of Mayo's "curse" doesn't matter. The truth is everybody in Mayo including the players and management now has a massive mental block from losing all these finals and that is going to be very difficult for them to overcome. The idea of winning an All-Ireland has taken on such an enormity that it sends brains haywire and turns legs to jelly. It weighs like a ton on them. That is a curse.

Dubs got slagged for years for getting caught up in the hype and getting carried away about how good they were. Gilroy and then Gavin got rid of all that. Being the capital city players can get away from the build up that players from counties like Mayo can't. They must get people constant recognizing them, bringing up the game and mentioning the curse. The senior players have lost so many finals now it has to have an impact on their psychology.

Dub hurlers were pushing in Leinster and couldn't make the breakthrough until Anthony Daly was appointed. He was a winner and brought a huge difference to the team's mentality. I wonder would Jim McGuinness get involved with Mayo.

When Dublin were knocked out this year there some hope that  some of the begrudging ballbags that support them would also be knocked out, but no, the attention seeking gurriers still linger past their sell time date to squeal about their petty grievances.

Well done you. You've somehow managed to have to have a dig at the dubs after an All Ireland final between Mayo and Tyrone. That's some serious bitterness there lad