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When you look at the stats
It looks like Cross only starting coming to the fore in 1996, 98 & 99. Was just wondering what are the main reasons for this in most people's eyes.
What did they change or how did they make such a big impact from there on?

Armagh clubs now have 14 Ulster titles with Derry having 11. You have to go back ten years for Derry's last win which was for an Lub.
Am I right to say most teams that win it have a huge pick of players that stay committed to the cause.

I suppose having Oisin & PTG helped their teams over the line a lot.

I guess it takes an exceptionally talented set of players to come along at once; with an exceptional level of dedication, commitment, discipline, belief and courage - attributes that Crossmaglen have in abundance. As well as all the talented players they have, they also have an almost telepathic understanding - they're one of the best drilled teams I've seen across any sporting discipline.

The thing with Cross is that they're able to adapt without their so-called main men. Oisín retiring, Jamie on his holidays, a number of injuries and they're still favourites. Most clubs would be decimated by that. I think Cross may struggle at the latter stages of the AI if/when they reach there, but Ulster should almost be a formality in my view.

[The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series.]

The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.

I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).

So its just a case of Maghery will be the best team Cross will meet this year as no other team (in your opinion) won't come close to a 3 point defeat? 

It's the case that Maghery gave Cross a game, had them well rattled at one stage and were within 3 points of them.

I'll be mildly surprised to see a team run them that close in Ulster. Which puts to bed this notion that Cross get a bye ball in Armagh, like the way Naomh Gall do in Antrim 

Where on earth are you getting that from?

My point is that there are teams  in Armagh that can give Cross a game. People like to pretend that Armagh is a walkover for Cross, when in reality they get as little/as much resistance in Armagh, as they do when they enter the Ulster Club. I used Maghery as an example because IMO they gave Cross a game and kept them scoreless for 20mins or so.

Thought the commentary was top notch. Very informative. I'm sure neither have any previous experience so it takes a bit of guts to do that...

Am I right in saying though that both men commentated on respective finals featuring their home clubs? Games that they lost? An omen perhaps.

[The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series.]

The fact that it takes a mammoth effort to get out of Tyrone aloan leaves it difficult to do well in Ulster. The flip side is that Cross can coast through Armagh in 2nd gear giving reserve players a run out and be fresh for the Ulster Club series. I would argue that Tyrone club football is in a much better place than Armagh's one horse race.

maybe i'm wrong and maybe it changed this year but do you not regularly get division 1 teams playing in the ifc in armagh with some division 2 teams playing in the sfc. surely this makes crossmaglens task a little bit easier in armagh?

You're right and wrong, it was the case for the last number of years, including this season; but as of next year the system will be pretty much the same as the Tyrone club setup. As an example, Annaghmore won the Junior, played Intermediate league and finished second, thus meaning they will be a Senior club next season.

As for EC saying Cross coast Armagh, did they also coast those 10 Ulsters/6 AI's? I'd near wager a bet now that no team in Ulster will get closer to Cross than Maghery did this year (3 points).

Was just curious, its starts every year in September? I know if I was a club footballer in Armagh I wouldn't like waiting until September to play in the championship. I suppose it works for Crossmaglen with Ulster Club football soon after that.

I think they like to keep a two week gap between games, to allow for replays etc. It also removes the need for fixtures having to be changed which is particularly annoying for club players who may have to change their work schedules and what not. Tyrone played their championship off quite promptly this year, no choice I suppose.

Would have had the Down final as a 50/50 game so not that big a shock, though I had fancied Burren myself, so fair play to Kilcoo.

Agree that it should be another formality for Cross but Kilcoo will probably pose a lot more problems than last time round; can't see Cross getting another 11 point lead.

As already mentioned Cross have the ability to rack up a big score in games very quickly. The key to competing with that is to limit their big scores during that dominance they always get in a game. Easier said that done, must be only a handfull of teams in Ireland that have actually beat this Cross team, who are they?

Maghery kept them scoreless for around 20 mins in the semifinal the other week, that in itself is an achievement!

To be fair Armagh isn't exactly brimming with talent, the only team to give Cross a game this year was Maghery. In Tyrone, any number of clubs would give Cross a game, Errigal, Dromore, Clonoe, Carrickmore, Coalisland and even Omagh or Ardboe.

The last Armagh club outside of Cross to win an Ulster championship was Mullaghbawn in 95 and before that Clans in 74. So I wouldn't be too chirpy about trying to get bragging rights on this one!

Would have had the Down final as a 50/50 game so not that big a shock, though I had fancied Burren myself, so fair play to Kilcoo.

Agree that it should be another formality for Cross but Kilcoo will probably pose a lot more problems than last time round; can't see Cross getting another 11 point lead.

Foreglen beat Madden by 3 in Crossmaglen this afternoon 0-15 to 1-9, I take it the grabber was playing?

Crossmaglen overcame a tame enough challenge from Cullyhanna this evening.

Close enough in the early exchanges but as the game wore on so did the gap between the sides.

It's amazing how Cross can cope having many key men out. Their younger lads really stepped up to the plate, where other teams would be lost at sea losing players of the calibre of J. Clarke.

Cullyhanna have some outstanding individuals but I wouldn't even have them in the top 3 in the county so tonight was pretty much a foregone conclusion, albeit many people expected it to be much closer. The effortlessness with which Cross can open up big leads in the space of a few minutes is truly amazing. With Kilcoo squeezing past Burren in Down, there's a cracker in store in Newry in two weeks time!

Any tips for this weekend?

Foreglen any good? Was gonna put them in accumulator. Think they play Madden, but dunno if they up to much?

Dunno nothingg about Madden.Foreglen missing their best best player due to 'ballgate'.

Depends how  Foreglen are able to cope without their suspended player (lol!)

Madden IMO weren't really the best intermediate team in Armagh and no one really tipped them from the outset. They didn't really beat anyone of note until the final and finished mid-table in the league. But as the old saying goes, leagues are for playing in... The intermediate in Armagh was quite competitive so that will probably stand to Madden. I'd say home advantage will sway it for them, it's hard to tell though. They've handy forwards but their fullback line wouldn't be the best.

Derry would have been an area where outside of Belfast there was plenty of trouble back in the 80`s and before  its no suprise cups are named after certain people. Is there no clubs, cups etc named around Armagh?

In Armagh, Dromintee's grounds are named after two Republican volunteers (Campbell/Lochrie). Think there's a Mairead Farrell Cup but it may be Tyrone?

Other than that I don't think there is much else but I wouldn't be too sure. I wonder if someone could compile a list of all the 'contentious' named cups/grounds/clubs. Can't be too many, would be interesting to put a number on it. Off the top of my head I've got:

Antrim:
McDonnell/Doherty Park
Cahill Cup

Armagh:
Campbell/Lochrie Park

Cavan?

Derry:
Kevin Lynch's
Bateson, Sheridan and Lee

Donegal?

Down?

Fermanagh:
Louis Leonard Memorial Park

Monaghan?

Tyrone:
Galbally u12 ...?

Louth?

Rest of Ireland?

For me, a lot depends on the availability of Crossmaglen's injured/missing players.

Even with the current players missing they'd be my favourites against every team still left in the competition.

If they get a full squad or at least near full strength I'd fancy them to retain their title, with the main contenders being Burren, St Gall's and Scotstown as darkhorses.

[Is it not telling that Tyrone folk see things differently than 31 other counties?]

Is it not telling that Tyrone folk see things differently than 31 other counties?

Most other counties don't give a rats arss about it.  Armagh people have being crying on about it for ten years and I am yet to hear anyone from the county call Marsden out for lifting his hands in an All-Ireland final and falling for Jordans gamesmanship.  Marsden was experienced enough to know better and if it had  have been a Tyrone man sent off I would have been livid with him for reducing us to 14 men. All this agro towards Jordan over the years only serves to excuse Marsden from his guilt in helping Tyrone to their first All-Ireland win. Thanks Dairmuid for your contribution to our success.

Anyone I have ever spoken to outside of Tyrone has sided with Marsden.

The agro is fully deserved by the way. A blatant act of cheating that tainted Tyrone's maiden victory. So well done Phillip on making a dick of yourself that day. That's what you'll be remembered for in that game.

Also from your last sentence you seem to think the incident itself was the winning and losing of the game, which most Tyrone folk deny (and I agree believe it or not).

I'm curious then how many of ye will say that Marsden did strike out at him and there was definite contact?
Was it with a closed fist or an open hand?

Was there no contact at all like general lee is saying? - "Didn't lay a finger on him"
I would have thought if someone was coming charging at you then you would put your two hands out in front of you to deflect them away from you so they fall to the ground or something like that.
From my memory,  Marsden lifts his fist up and swings out at him. I would like to see it again though to remind myself.

You are now mincing my words. What I said was that if you look at the picture that was posted a few pages back, Marsden doesn't have a hand on Jordan, which is clear for all to see. It is Jordan who has the clenched fist.

Of course contact was made. Jordan ran at him like a deranged idiot, and Diarmaid put his hands up. Both of them. He didn't swing. I was at the game and remember it clear as day. I have never seen someone swing with both hands (or fists) simultaneously.

Whether he caught him in the face is irrelevant because it was an instinctive reaction and there was no malice, unlike Jordan. The subsequent theatrics led to White, who did not see the incident nor consulted his officials, sending Marsden off.

I must run at a few boys some night outside Hagan's to see what reaction I get